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Old 08-09-2019, 01:25 PM   #1
Ultraviolet
 
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Default [TG] Perk to allow Break Free with striking skill?

I like TG
And I like the Clinch Perk, allowing a striker a limited grappling option .

But how about when the striker gets grappled and wants to break free?
Would it be unbalancing to allow a Perk for this? Representing training in avoiding grapples.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:02 PM   #2
Plane
 
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Default Re: [TG] Perk to allow Break Free with striking skill?

That seems like a pretty reasonable use for a Skill Adaptation perk.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:42 AM   #3
malloyd
 
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Default Re: [TG] Perk to allow Break Free with striking skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
That seems like a pretty reasonable use for a Skill Adaptation perk.
I'd certainly allow that for any weapon skill that includes something usable at reach C.

If you want it for your Polearm skill I might insist on a bit of justifying backstory, and/or require you to spend a couple points on a grappling skill as a prerequisite, but it's hardly unimaginable that some Polearm instructors include regular Break Free drills in their training program, and positively reasonable some martial art school exists that teaches both and would let you do most of your practice sessions with your halberd.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:36 PM   #4
Plane
 
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Default Re: [TG] Perk to allow Break Free with striking skill?

The OP was about Strikers (which use Brawling) but you raise a good question about adapting Break Free as a technique for weapons, very interesting!

Let's see what precedents exist...

B370 once someone has grabbed ahold of your weapon it's a Regular Contest of ST v ST to see who lets go, doesn't seem like skill even comes into it.

MA68 when trying to break free of "Bind Weapon" is a quick contest of the target's weapon skill vs the attacker's Bind Weapon skill, so skill with the weapon is really helpful in breaking the weapon free of a grapple in that contest (grappled by a binding weapon, not generic weapon grapples).

MA78 allows ST-based Retain Weapon rolls in place of ST when rolling the regular contest B370 refers to, as well as against B401's more instantaneous disarms.

This says it defaults to the weapon skill however, meaning anyone with DX+1 in their weapon skill is basically ST+1 to resist that Regular Contest.

I'm pretty sure that would include polearms, so they should be as good as any other at breaking free of grapples on the weapon itself...

As for breaking OTHER grapples though, you might apply that -4 per yard of length (Long Weapons in Close Combat) to make them less useful for escaping grapples of your own limbs rather than grapples on your weapon.

Cole's notes actually specify (TG34 expansion to "Armed Grapple" from MA67)

You may perform techniques based on unarmed grappling skills only if you have spent points in those skills;
base the technique on the lower of your Melee Weapon skill or your unarmed grappling skill.


So even someone without Technique Adaptation (Break Free uses Weapon) should be able to do them IF the set up an armed grapple first.

It's of course better to have technique adaptation since then you don't need to successfully initiate a grapple first to begin using Break Free, you could just use it right away.

Last edited by Plane; 08-11-2019 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 08-12-2019, 05:05 AM   #5
Ultraviolet
 
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Default Re: [TG] Perk to allow Break Free with striking skill?

I see now that my initial post was phrasewd in a way thet (a detail of) it could be misunderstood.

When I wrote "striker" i actually meant "fighter using a striking skill" in the same way that saying "a grappler" means "a fighter using a grappling skill".

I did not mean Striker as in "body part used only to strike with", I apologize.

It was about a fighter with no grappling skills being allowed to use his striking skill to Break Free.

However the answers given are quite enlightening.
It seems Skill Adaptation Perk (allow Break Free with Brawling (or whatever)) is the fix. And Training Bonus should use slow progression.

Thanks.

I love TG, and have adapted it into an ongoing Cliffhanger campaign. Several of the players have taken a liking to it, the rest just accept it. Few of them know the rules well yet, but we're getting there.
A player has just returned after almost 2 years break. He plays daring adventuress Cassandra Harker, who uses Wrestling to do the Parry->Arm Lock->Throw from Lock. Little has changes for this by adapting TG.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:04 AM   #6
DouglasCole
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Default Re: [TG] Perk to allow Break Free with striking skill?

Jumping in fairly late:

One way to use striking to get out of a grapple might be to simply attack the body parts doing the grapple. "I punch their arm" sort of thing. If you can overcome whatever DX (and ST, if using TG rather than FDG) penalties are on you to punch them while they're grappling you, then allowing some or all of the damage to reduce control points as well would be kinda fun, and I (perhaps?) remember something being said in Martial Arts, I think, about this practice.

Brawling in particular has always been a bit grabby, so allowing counter-grapples using a slow progression, or (with the Clinch) perk to default to Skill-2 (like the default for Armed Grapple) or Skill-4 or Skill-5 but improvable as a Hard Technique might be a way to point-cost it out.

I tend to be wary-in-theory of cross-over like this, but since "Judo Throw defaults to Axe" and "Judo Throw defaults to Shield" have both appeared on my character sheets in the past, the Technique Adaptation methodology seems appropriate. The only hesitation is that making and breaking grapples is a "core skill" thing, but since you're only attacking to shed a grapple, not make one, well . . . it'll do.
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