Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2021, 07:21 PM   #1
SilvercatMoonpaw
 
SilvercatMoonpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

How much does using two hands increase BL if you don't increase the time taken?

Does adding further hands (via Extra Arms) increase BL even further?

Is the weight intended to start from foot level or shoulder level? (Encountered this one on reddit after a Google search; it's not really that important.)
__________________
Pronoun: "They/She"
SilvercatMoonpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 02:33 AM   #2
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
How much does using two hands increase BL if you don't increase the time taken?
It's a pretty weird formula

option 1 > option 2 implies double time = double lift (or half time is half lift)

ergo if we reverse engineer option 3, half the time of 4 seconds implies a 2H lift in 2 seconds would be 4xBL...

which is really just the sum of 2xBL + 2xBL

The real question is: why can't you do a 1-arm lift of 4xBL in 4 seconds?
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 05:59 AM   #3
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
How much does using two hands increase BL if you don't increase the time taken?
My guess would be using two hands in one second is BLx2, two hands in two seconds is BLx4, and two hands in four seconds (the maximum) is BLx8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
Does adding further hands (via Extra Arms) increase BL even further?
It's arguably a bit unbalanced, but I don't think enough to really break anything, so it would probably be OK to do so. What sort of multiplier is involved is up to you - for simplicity, I'd probably just go with a multiplier equal to the number of hands used, with the option to take two seconds to double this or (if using two or more hands) four seconds to quadruple it (three seconds to triple it would also be acceptable). Realistically, you'd probably run into diminishing returns due to not being able to effectively grab the object with all your hands if you have a huge number (also, there may be biomechanical limits, considering you often aren't lifting with your arm and shoulder muscles alone), but again it's probably fine to ignore that for the sake of simplicity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
Is the weight intended to start from foot level or shoulder level? (Encountered this one on reddit after a Google search; it's not really that important.)
Neither - I've always assumed that's to go from holding it in your hand with your arm fully extended downward (so probably around thigh-level) to holding it in your hand with your arm fully extended upward. Lifting it from foot level wouldn't take any additional time, however - you'd have to be crouching or bent over (although the latter would be bad for you if the item's close to your limit - lift with your knees, not your back!) to grab something at foot level, and then you'd stand back up straight while lifting the item with your arm to get it above your head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
The real question is: why can't you do a 1-arm lift of 4xBL in 4 seconds?
My guess would be an efficiency thing - two hands are more efficient than one, which isn't quite met by simply doubling BL.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul

Last edited by Varyon; 08-03-2021 at 06:03 AM.
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 06:24 AM   #4
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

I prefer the revised rules from the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game. Consider this "free sample" an ad for that game's improvements!


Lifting and Shifting

Basic Lift (BL) rates the weight you can manage. After adding any Lifting ST to ST, calculate BL as ST×ST/5 pounds. Use BL as follows:
One-Handed Lift: BL (one second), 2×BL (two seconds).
Two-Handed Lift: 2×BL (one second), 4×BL (two seconds), 8×BL (four seconds).
Shove and Knock Over: 12×BL (one second), 24×BL with a running start (two seconds).
Maximum Press: 15×BL (get your entire body under the load and use your back). Costs 1 FP per second on top of any extra effort!
Pull/Drag: 15×BL, and also divide the load's effective weight by 2 on a slick surface (e.g., ice), 5 for a one-wheeled wheelbarrow, 10 for a two-wheeled cart, or 20 for a four-wheeled wagon. Add any conveyance’s weight to the load before dividing. Determine encumbrance level using effective weight, and find Move normally.
Shift/Rock Slightly: 50×BL.
Lifting in Combat: Each second of lifting is a Ready maneuver. To pick up another character, you must successfully grapple first (Grappling, pp. 40-41) – and your rival may try to break free during the time the lift takes! Shoving something is an Attack maneuver, preceded by a Move maneuver for a running start.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News]
Kromm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 06:45 AM   #5
SilvercatMoonpaw
 
SilvercatMoonpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Re: Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Realistically, you'd probably run into diminishing returns due to not being able to effectively grab the object with all your hands if you have a huge number (also, there may be biomechanical limits, considering you often aren't lifting with your arm and shoulder muscles alone), ....
I could imagine at a certain point lifting with a bunch of arms is just stabilizing it while the rest of your body does the lifting.

But it's probably a useful case to consider if for no other reason that it could simplify having a bunch of people lift together.
__________________
Pronoun: "They/She"
SilvercatMoonpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 06:53 AM   #6
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
I could imagine at a certain point lifting with a bunch of arms is just stabilizing it while the rest of your body does the lifting.
Pretty much, but most players aren't going to create a Hecatoncheire as a character. I think trying to work out the diminishing returns would be too complicated to be worth it, but I may be mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
But it's probably a useful case to consider if for no other reason that it could simplify having a bunch of people lift together.
That latter bit is easy - just add together everyone's BL (or rather effective BL, assuming their using two hands and taking extra time). It should probably take at least twice as long as normal (so using two hands to lift at 8xBL would take 8 seconds, not 4), however, unless the characters involved have Teamwork or similar (someone with Leadership giving orders - and succeeding at the skill roll - is probably sufficient to avoid this requirement, and I could see certain Professional skills standing in for having Teamwork, such as Soldier).
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 07:20 AM   #7
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I could see certain Professional skills standing in for having Teamwork, such as Soldier).
Or Freight Handling (just to give an obscure skill its tiny moment in the forum spotlight).
Anaraxes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 07:25 AM   #8
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Or Freight Handling (just to give an obscure skill its tiny moment in the forum spotlight).
Absolutely. Heck, that should probably be at +4 for this purpose, and also be able to stand in for Lifting skill.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 08:13 AM   #9
SilvercatMoonpaw
 
SilvercatMoonpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Re: Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
I prefer the revised rules from the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game. Consider this "free sample" an ad for that game's improvements!
Not sure it's enough to persuade me to spend US$40 for what are going to be many duplicated rules, but thanks for the sample!
__________________
Pronoun: "They/She"
SilvercatMoonpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 10:01 AM   #10
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Questions on Basic Lift (BL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Shoving something is an Attack maneuver, preceded by a Move maneuver for a running start.
Regarding incentive to do that, I'm guessing that like in GURPS Martial Arts there may be an option to substitute slam/collision damage for thrust (if higher) during a Move and Attack maneuver, for shoves too?
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.