About the crossbow, a recap

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Which doesn't really solve the problem of GURPS Low Tech presenting the steel crossbows right next to the wooden and composite ones, with stats that make them non-competitive.

Well, I can't change the stats in LT. Can you?

If you're talking House Rules forbid cheap wooden crossbows over ST "X" for what ever value of X you want. It's probably not very high.

Then cut the price of steel crossbows and/or raise the price of composite ones.

You could have rules about realistic difficulties of keeping composite bows functional in wet climates too.

You could also start skipping right over the crossbow entries because
PCs don't use them very often and this is all more trouble than it's worth.

[Anthony]

I think the problem with how low tech handles crossbows is that steel crossbows did have low energy storage relative to their draw weight because they were very stiff, but once you have mechanical assistance (lever or crank) that doesn't matter. A 400lb draw bow with a draw length of 6" and a 100 lb bow with a draw length of 24" have identical energy storage, and more importantly, if you use a lever or crank, are also equally difficult to draw. The other key property is energy storage per kg (I wasn't able to find a good source for the mechanical properties of historical crossbow steel), as the ratio of bow weight to projectile weight is a big factor in efficiency, but in practice you'll just use a heavier projectile if that's what you need to get good efficiency.

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Which doesn't really solve the problem of GURPS Low Tech presenting the steel crossbows right next to the wooden and composite ones, with stats that make them non-competitive.

Isn't it OK to provide choices that aren't great against every other option, if it's in fact accurate? Maybe there are other reasons why that's what is available to someone?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Farmer

Isn't it OK to provide choices that aren't great against every other option, if it's in fact accurate? Maybe there are other reasons why that's what is available to someone?

It could be. But I do not believe that it is in fact accurate, or that any plausible reason exists for the significance of steel crossbows if they actually compared to wooden ones in the way that the stats say they do.

[warellis]

How do modern crossbows compare to old steel crossbows?

Are they weaker or more powerful or what?

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by warellis

How do modern crossbows compare to old steel crossbows?

Are they weaker or more powerful or what?

I saw an episode of Tods Workshop I think it was where he compared performance of a powerful old crossbow vs. a modern hunting bow. The modern bow was easier to use and performed better IIRC.

Tod's conclusion was something like: 'If I had to pick one and fight for my life with it, I'd take the modern one; if I had to pick one as my preference to own and use in normal life, I'd take the mediaeval one.'

[warellis]

I remember reading in The Deadly Spring that modern pistol crossbows could apparently match old steel crossbows in damage and energy.

Kind of insane.

[Ulzgoroth]

Quality modern bows use materials vastly superior to any that existed at any point where bows were militarily significant.

Plus often fancy advantageous mechanical designs.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Quality modern bows use materials vastly superior to any that existed at any point where bows were militarily significant.

Plus often fancy advantageous mechanical designs.

How do modern quarrels/bolts & arrows (and arrowheads) compare to older versions?

Would be kind of interesting to see how a modern compound bow & modern hunting heads compare to something like older hunting bows such as elm shortbows or whatever and whatever type of hunting broadhead they may have used back then.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by warellis

How do modern quarrels/bolts & arrows (and arrowheads) compare to older versions?

While we use different materials, there's a limit to what you can do with a simple low speed penetrator, so unlike the difference in bows, probably nothing that's relevant on the scale of games.