About the crossbow, a recap

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

<sigh> Steel crossbows are something else Gurps includes for realism and historical detail but which would be nearly useless to most adventurers.

And with the way the stats are done, you can make non-steel crossbows that are better than them in every way at the same time. Maybe excluding price. And if that's unrealistic there's nothing saying so...

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

No, that ST is just to hold and fire the crossbow which someone else may have cocked.

Also, the Military Crossbow requires a ST of 12 to handle its' 15lb weight. The 14M is for the 18lb Siege Crossbow but you normally ignore this as the "M" means its mounted rather than hand-held.

<sigh> Steel crossbows are something else Gurps includes for realism and historical detail but which would be nearly useless to most adventurers.

As far as I can tell, using the stats in LT they're nearly useless for everyone - you can get better performance from wooden or composite ones.

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by Rupert

As far as I can tell, using the stats in LT they're nearly useless for everyone - you can get better performance from wooden or composite ones.

Back in the 80s, playing Runequest, I had a character who had a horse. He carried an arbalest, just because. It was nearly useless. One shot, then the fight needed other options or it would be over before the next shot.

However, one day we rode around a corner in a forest and there stood a giant who decided to yell at us and was about to throw some large rocks. I fired. Critical hit to the head. Giant dies!

So, yeah, once ever it was useful :-)

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Farmer

Back in the 80s, playing Runequest, I had a character who had a horse. He carried an arbalest, just because. It was nearly useless. One shot, then the fight needed other options or it would be over before the next shot.

For party-sized groups, crossbows are one-shot-per-fight weapons. Black powder pistols are much the same. Shoot, drop it, and fast-draw a melee weapon.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by johndallman

For party-sized groups, crossbows are one-shot-per-fight weapons. Black powder pistols are much the same. Shoot, drop it, and fast-draw a melee weapon.

Only the heavy ones. Ones with shots 1(4) are only slightly slower than bows.

Of course, without cinematic rules like Heroic Archer, using a bow in a melee fight isn't an especially good approach. And in a fight that doesn't allow a prompt melee a heavy cranked crossbow might well get to fire multiple shots.

[RyanW]

Historically, very little weapon design was focused on groups of three to six traversing cramped quarters fighting hordes of inferior foes in corridors and rooms that conveniently align to graph paper.

[Rupert]

The size and weight, and even the slow rate of fire of the metal crossbows aren't the problem. It's that they have all of those drawbacks but don't do much more damage than lower TL non-metal ones - in fact, for the same reloading assistance, they do less, because effective ST is halved for damage and range for a metal bow, but not for a conventional one.

[Inky]

Originally Posted by johndallman

For party-sized groups, crossbows are one-shot-per-fight weapons. Black powder pistols are much the same. Shoot, drop it, and fast-draw a melee weapon.

Or go Blackbeard, shoot, drop it, and fast-draw another loaded black-powder pistol.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Rupert

As far as I can tell, using the stats in LT they're nearly useless for everyone - you can get better performance from wooden or composite ones.

From my research Gurps generally overestimates the power and utility of wooden crossbows. Self bows of the size to fit crossbows are comparatively weak. The medieval crossbows that were replaced by the steel ones were composite.

A powerful wooden-bowed crossbow is a gastraphretes and those were enormous.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

From my research Gurps generally overestimates the power and utility of wooden crossbows. Self bows of the size to fit crossbows are comparatively weak. The medieval crossbows that were replaced by the steel ones were composite.

A powerful wooden-bowed crossbow is a gastraphretes and those were enormous.

Which doesn't really solve the problem of GURPS Low Tech presenting the steel crossbows right next to the wooden and composite ones, with stats that make them non-competitive.