10-16-2020, 05:00 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
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A test I've used for this is if you have Sense of Duty you are willing to die for the cause if you can't think of an alternate plan that stands a reasonable chance of providing similar levels of benefits. Fanaticism means you actively *look for* the chance to die for the cause, looking for alternatives or considering whether the cause would actually gain anything are just disloyal waffling.
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-- MA Lloyd |
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10-16-2020, 07:11 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
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10-16-2020, 07:48 AM | #13 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
Maybe, but even base Fanaticism is worth a lot of points, as much as SCF 12 versions of disadvantages that really are likely to get you killed like On the Edge or Trickster. It needs to be seriously risky.
I think with Extreme Fanaticism is more like you aren't just looking, your are actively trying to engineer situations where you can die for the Cause. And of course looking for a chance to have everybody around you die for the cause too. An ordinary Fanatic might not care if his fellow adventurers die, but he doesn't necessarily think he's doing them a favor by helping make this sacrifice for the Truth, whether they wanted to or not.
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-- MA Lloyd |
10-16-2020, 07:56 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
The description of Fanaticism says "You might even be willing to die for it!" (emphasis mine), so I feel that your interpretation is a little extreme.
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“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius |
10-16-2020, 07:59 AM | #15 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
Fanaticism and Sense of Duty produce completely different behaviors. I've put the major points of contrast in boldface.
If you have Fanaticism, you take the side of a cause – nation, organization, person, philosophy, religion, etc. – with violence. Before you say, "No, that isn't it!", remember that most violence is emotional, intellectual, or social rather than physical. If you oppress, shun, undercut, publicly decry, deny the rights of, or try to brainwash or forcibly "convert" individuals opposed to your chosen cause, you are violent even if you've never landed a blow or fired a bullet. The key behavior here is fighting for your cause against whomever you perceive as enemies of that cause, regardless of whether your cause is a good one and regardless of whether your fight is winnable. Fanaticism is perforce outward-directed . . . it's about establishing "us" and "them," and doing your best to push the line between outward into the world (by winning mindshare, concessions, the election, or the war, as the case may be), or at least to keep those you perceive as foes of the cause from crossing that line. If you have Sense of Duty, you take the side of a person or a group of people – who can still constitute a nation, organization, or members of a philosophical or religious group, but who are not some impersonal "cause" (in the case of nature, these "people" are all the plants and animals). You do so by caring; as the disadvantage states quite clearly, you'll never leave them in trouble or even let them starve. In effect, you have Charitable and Selfless toward those people only. The key behavior here is helping and protecting whomever you feel you owe a duty to, regardless of whether they merit or even want that assistance. Sense of Duty is perforce inward-directed . . . it it's about how you behave toward those inside a group, and doesn't waste a lot (or possibly any) time worrying about who "us" and "them" are. It's honest care from the heart, extended willingly to anyone who has a reasonable claim to being a member of your chosen group. A soldier with Fanaticism wants to fight and kill for their nation, to carve out its place in the world, bring it glory, perhaps expand its empire, and certainly punish and destroy its enemies; if the lives of a bunch of other soldiers have to be "spent" to "buy" an objective, so be it. A soldier with Sense of Duty wants to protect fellow soldiers or possibly all citizens of their nation; if the greater, impersonal military cause suffers because they're too busy pulling their mates to cover or moving citizens out of the warzone, so be it. A soldier with both will try to reconcile these things . . . they'll protect their mates by charging the enemy with a machine gun while the wounded are evacuated, take on stupidly bad odds because "One of our citizens is in there!", and in general protect via a "the best defense is a good offense" approach to life.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
10-16-2020, 08:15 AM | #16 | |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
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Fanaticism is worth -15 points because it isn't remotely rational or justifiable. It makes you a crazy person who will accept no truce or compromise in your "war." If this conflict exists in the real world, your lack of mental stability will be exploited by those fighting it, and once the conflict ends, you'll have nothing to live for and end up being a tragic Rambo figure. If the conflict exists only in your head, your lack of mental stability will eventually reach a crisis point where you're likely to kill or be killed for realz. I'd say it's one of those innately "dark" disadvantages, in the same boat as Megalomania and Sadism.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
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10-16-2020, 08:21 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
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This may be a bit at odds with Kromm's interpretation above, but even then I'm not sure - Cap is clearly at a loss when he's not fighting and his career ends when he buys off the disadvantage to settle down. |
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10-16-2020, 08:36 AM | #18 | |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
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As you wrote, he was at a loss once "all warrior, all the time" wasn't an acceptable way to lead his life; his psychological struggles are a huge part of his character. What kept him from becoming Rambo was that Marvel tends to err on the cheerful side even when things are dark. Yet the curious should look up David Morrell, who wrote First Blood and worked on a Captain America comic . . . the two are sufficiently alike that the owners of the latter property felt the author of the former would be a good fit to their super-soldier's heroic mythos.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
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10-16-2020, 08:53 AM | #19 |
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
Rambo as seen in the first film spares a helpless foe (a cop), so Fanaticism is separate from Bloodlust.
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Leave this space blank. |
10-16-2020, 08:54 AM | #20 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Fanaticism and Sense of Duty
No, just no. Captain America does not have any sort of "My County Right or Wrong!" Disad.
When his country (usually in the form of its' government) is wrong he stands for what's right. Besides many, many instances in the comics the whole Civil War movie illustrates this.
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Fred Brackin |
Tags |
disadvantages, fanaticism, sense of duty |
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