My Honest Opinion

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's perfectly suitable...in fact I'd say mandatory for any character who is a stand in for a D&D Paladin. It's not a problem for superheroes apart from issues associated with secret identities. In English Common Law settings you are allowed to rescue people and stop felonies just as long as you hang around to talk to the cops afterward. It works for actual cops.

All D&D Paladins I've seen believed in a code of conduct that didn't change depending on jurisdiction. If a foreign realm they visited had bad laws designed to oppress minorities, they were under no obligation to 'do their best' so that everyone obeyed those bad laws.

Also, it's not enough to just hang around to talk to the cops. You've got to actually tell the cops the truth, too. Including, in the vast majority of cases, things that you may not think are relevant, but the cops do. Like who you are. Not just your stripper or superhero name, but your actual legal identity.

[Celjabba]

One thing I noticed is that when you have a player who is a specialist in a field at a game table, he will often be rightfully very vocal if the less knowing GM is approximate, or worse, wrong, on the subject. Architecture, history, arms and armor, ship handling, whatever. On subject they don't know about however, anything goes.
I could probably have one of my player sailing on the Victory in 640 AD without him noticing something wrong, but woe is me if I confuse monophysites and nestorian... (I will not !)
Icelander, unless I am wrong, you are a lawyer.
It may be that an average western citizen today unwillingly break 6 laws before breakfast. You would know it, and knowing it, the honesty disad certainly is a terrible burden.
I wouldn't know, my players neither, and our perception of the disads will therefore be , I believe, quite different !

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Icelander

All D&D Paladins I've seen believed in a code of conduct that didn't change depending on jurisdiction.

Same with me. And that code included respecting the local laws if they were there as visitors. It was different if they were there to make war on the place of course or if they rejected the jurisdiction as illegitimate.

Also, it's not enough to just hang around to talk to the cops. You've got to actually tell the cops the truth, too. Including, in the vast majority of cases, things that you may not think are relevant, but the cops do. Like who you are. Not just your stripper or superhero name, but your actual legal identity.

As I said the "apart from issues associated with secret identities". And the answer is simple. Don't have a secret identity. Or have a setting where the laws accommodate secret identities. Sidekick Girl for example.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Superman has never performed one in his life. Hell, he's an illegal alien whose life as Clark Kent is probably founded on felony fraud.

Is he actually defrauding anybody? I mean his name basically *is* Clark Kent. It's the Superman thing that's closer to fake.

I think he might get a pass on the illegal alien issue too, because of the physical impossibility of the United States deporting him to his now nonexistent home world - there are some UN conventions that forbid you to criminalize someone continuing to live on the planet because nowhere will accept them. I suppose he really ought to apply for refugee status on the grounds being returned to the toxic (kryptonite filled) environment of his shattered native planet would endanger his life.

Though I dunno, the Kents might have formally adopted him, which would cover both of those. You'd think they'd have had to have *some* sort of paperwork straightened out somewhere to do stuff like enroll him in school.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Is he actually defrauding anybody? I mean his name basically *is* Clark Kent. It's the Superman thing that's closer to fake.

I think he might get a pass on the illegal alien issue too, because of the physical impossibility of the United States deporting him to his now nonexistent home world - there are some UN conventions that forbid you to criminalize someone continuing to live on the planet because nowhere will accept them. I suppose he really ought to apply for refugee status on the grounds being returned to the toxic (kryptonite filled) environment of his shattered native planet would endanger his life.

Though I dunno, the Kents might have formally adopted him, which would cover both of those. You'd think they'd have had to have *some* sort of paperwork straightened out somewhere to do stuff like enroll him in school.

Superman has foundling citizenship.

US Code 1401 (f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Is he actually defrauding anybody? I mean his name basically *is* Clark Kent. It's the Superman thing that's closer to fake.

Well, Clark Kent has not, to my knowledge, ever admitted to being responsible for the massive property damage he causes when he plays dress up.

If you give a fake name to the cops and fly away, whatever you did was not a legal citizen's arrest or any other kind of legal act. If you are involved in a violent, destructive event, especially if there are multiple felonies involved, in strict legal terms, it's not really optional whether you choose to let the police know who you are. And I'm pretty sure that the owners of the destroyed property feel pretty defrauded, as they can't sue the appropriate person, but only some pseudonym that doesn't legally exist.

Of course, it's very understandable why he would act that way. But someone with GURPS Honesty couldn't.

Originally Posted by malloyd

I think he might get a pass on the illegal alien issue too, because of the physical impossibility of the United States deporting him to his now nonexistent home world - there are some UN conventions that forbid you to criminalize someone continuing to live on the planet because nowhere will accept them. I suppose he really ought to apply for refugee status on the grounds being returned to the toxic (kryptonite filled) environment of his shattered native planet would endanger his life.

Superman should absolutely qualify for refugee status. The fact remains, he never applied, not in any media I'm familiar with. What he actually did do, as far as I can tell, is enjoy the benefits of falsified paperwork which allowed him to leapfrog past other, legitimate refugees who were honest enough to actually rely on the system instead of obtaining a false identity.

Originally Posted by malloyd

Though I dunno, the Kents might have formally adopted him, which would cover both of those. You'd think they'd have had to have *some* sort of paperwork straightened out somewhere to do stuff like enroll him in school.

Yeah and because his identity as Clark Kent is a secret identity, the paperwork was obviously falsified. Relevant information, including the identity of his parents, was deliberately suppressed. Again, understandable, but if Superman had GURPS Honesty, he'd have to clear that up as soon as he came of age.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Of course, it's very understandable why he would act that way. But someone with GURPS Honesty couldn't.

You know, I've occasionally been called out on using too-literal interpretations of RAW and wondering why this gives broken results. And I think this time, you're doing the overly literal interpretation and making it look unplayable as a result.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Yeah and because his identity as Clark Kent is a secret identity, the paperwork was obviously falsified. Relevant information, including the identity of his parents, was deliberately suppressed. Again, understandable, but if Superman had GURPS Honesty, he'd have to clear that up as soon as he came of age.

Eh, I'm not sure they would have had to *falsify* anything. They legitimately didn't know who his parents were, and the paperwork on an adoption probably wasn't anything like as exhaustive ca. 1900 when they'd have been filing it for the original version of Superman. It's not like they neglected to tick a checkbox on the form for "found the baby in a crashed spaceship".

[Flyndaran]

I vaguely remember an episode of a Superman tv show where he was sued by someone "wrongfully injured" during a rescue.
One of the jokes was how hard it was for him to find an honest kind lawyer to defend him without using any tricks or duplicity.

He was served papers by a false suicide or something or other. Those guys are rather tenacious, eh?

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Superman should absolutely qualify for refugee status. The fact remains, he never applied, not in any media I'm familiar with. What he actually did do, as far as I can tell, is enjoy the benefits of falsified paperwork which allowed him to leapfrog past other, legitimate refugees who were honest enough to actually rely on the system instead of obtaining a false identity.

This premise lends itself to a comedy skit about ICE reluctantly turning up to ask Superman to 'go back'.