Mechanics/techniques to incentivize disadvantages

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

In general, IME the frequency of phenomena in a setting doesn't automatically mean that it's anywhere near easy to predict the frequency of said phenomena in an upcoming campaign.

For symmetry, wouldn't you also be required to adjust Advantage costs in a similar way? There are a couple of times I've spent valuable points on Advantages in chargen that have then rarely come up during play.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

For symmetry, wouldn't you also be required to adjust Advantage costs in a similar way? There are a couple of times I've spent valuable points on Advantages in chargen that have then rarely come up during play.

Yes, for many Advantages, this would be very nice to have.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

For symmetry, wouldn't you also be required to adjust Advantage costs in a similar way?

That will be particularly interesting for Extra Life. It costs you nothing unless you die, because it's otherwise useless and can never come up. So, all characters might as well always have it, even after they die the first time.

Unaging is similarly weird with a pay-as-you-go mechanic, as it's free unless you die of old age, or at least fail an aging roll, which by itself is worth less than never aging at all.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Yes, for many Advantages, this would be very nice to have.

This strikes me as a trickier beast to handle. You'd need some way to stop a player just listing every conceivably useful zero cost Advantage, and only pay for it if it becomes useful in play.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

That will be particularly interesting for Extra Life. It costs you nothing unless you die, because it's otherwise useless and can never come up. So, all characters might as well always have it, even after they die the first time.

Hmm. That seems like another alternative to the FATE Concession / Rogue Trader Burning Fate Points mechanic.

[dataweaver]

Sometimes you can overdo symmetry. I think there needs to be at least a nominal CP cost for Advantages, even if you're being asked to “pay as you go”. Either that, or put some other sort of restriction on which Advantages you can have: you can't just take everything, because not everything is going to fit your character's concept.

[dataweaver]

Thinking this through a bit more: Attributes, Skills, Advantages that grant dice bonuses, and Disadvantages that impose dice penalties should ask be paid for up front. “pay/reward as you go” should be restricted to things that involve an active choice on the player's part preferably one of narrative significance. That's a key point here: it we're using Fate as a model, it's important to note that Fate aimed to model drama rather than attempting realism.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Thinking this through a bit more: Attributes, Skills, Advantages that grant dice bonuses, and Disadvantages that impose dice penalties should ask be paid for up front. “pay/reward as you go” should be restricted to things that involve an active choice on the player's part preferably one of narrative significance. That's a key point here: it we're using Fate as a model, it's important to note that Fate aimed to model drama rather than attempting realism.

First, it should be noted that FATE doesn't distinguish between activating a trait for a qualitative effect ("and now your Childhood Friend appears!") and activating it for a quantitative effect ("I'm Strong As A Lion! I get +2 to break down the door!") for activation costs.

Second, a GURPS trait providing a dice modifier does not in itself mean that a trait is easier to predict in terms of usefulness. E.g. a hypothetical trait like "+3 to Influence Skill use against all Canadian Redheads" may turn up a dozen times in a campaign set in America . . . or it can never come up. For that, pay-as-you-go (with or without an initial investment) seems more likely to be fairly priced than a 'lottery' cost (i.e. pay N at the start, and hope that it will come up).

[dataweaver]

By that line of reasoning, what wouldn't you use “pay as you go” for, and why?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

By that line of reasoning, what wouldn't you use “pay as you go” for, and why?

That's something I've been thinking of and don't have a good answer. Maybe things that are absolutely ubiquitously relevant almost all the time (and with trivial ease for PCs to make them relevant). In FATE, that's skills. But in standard GURPS, there are so many of them, that the likelyhood of each skill being relevant. FATE skills are broad - one can bet that there'll be some use for Lore, or Physique, or Athletics in almost any action-adventure. But something as narrow as Heraldry (Corporate Logos), or Forced Entry, or Jumping? Much less likely on its own, and much harder for a PC to come up with a way to make one of those skills relevant to any given situation.

Another nuance to FATE skills is that they can be swapped between sessions, which GURPS skills cannot.

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An idea: how about letting players choose whether they want to buy a trait for permanent use, or for a per-activation basis? GURPS mechanics already support that for Advantages.