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Old 05-18-2022, 01:29 PM   #21
RedMattis
 
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
[...] from your monthly wages.
Now I've got the mental image of a 50-meter adventurer crouched down outside a (relatively) tiny administrative building trying desperately to fill out tax declaration forms on tiny pieces of parchment.
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Old 05-18-2022, 01:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
In lower TL games cheap ST/HP, greater reach, and easy grappling is a very powerful combination. It also adds to Intimidation.

In and of itself, being large is probably a bit of a disadvantage, but combined with high ST it's pretty good, especially in settings where lethal combat isn't too common - grappling is a great way to shut someone down without killing them or even harming them much, and a decent Intimidation skill backed by obvious size and strength is a good way to encourage people to not even consider violence in the first place.

So, yes, in a game of high-/ultra-tech murder-hobos large size isn't worth much. In a low-/high-tech game where non-lethal violence is common, it's great.
The point about reach is a good one. I'm not sure how I feel about the grappling side of things. AFAICT in the grappling rules high SM massively benefits pints and doesn't much affect anything else. Which implies that in a superhero universe, heroes who can grow to giant size should have a relatively easy time rendering smaller but equally strong characters helpless. Not sure that makes any sense.
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Old 05-18-2022, 01:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

Fame and quite likely fortune.
Unless you're too big, then possibly quite a bit of inconvenience to others/humans.

But if you were bigger, and human(ish), and without the usual drawbacks, like a shorter lifespan and all that, then you'd basically be quite superior to most people alive.
Even today.

Sure, you'd need extra accomodation, but unless you're freakishly ginormous, you'd be the star pretty much anywhere.
Children would want to ride on you. Women would wonder if they could take you. Men would probably be jealous, but they could also be inspired.
(And if you're a woman, well, I'd say that it's obvious you that you'd be popular all around, too. Gigantesses are kind of an established thing.)

As for the food: Even if you weren't somehow the talk of the town (and therefore probably well off), which you would be, food is still produced in quite the surplus 'around these parts'.
(In other words, you could probably eat all the leftover food in the supermarkets)

Smaller humanoids will never have the same regard as bigger ones. No matter how sturdy and surly and martial you can make a dwarf.

One SM higher and you can oil yourself up, walk across the beach and you'll have fawners dangling off of you pretty much guaranteed.
(Edit: Yes despite the oil :P)
And those still have quite a bit of worth in 'post revenge of the nerds' world.

Last edited by Lovewyrm; 05-18-2022 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 05-18-2022, 01:49 PM   #24
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

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Originally Posted by Lovewyrm View Post
Fame and quite likely fortune.
Unless you're too big, then possibly quite a bit of inconvenience to others/humans.
That all depends on the context of how you're encountering someone.

In a dark alley (or out in the wilderness, anywhere others aren't around to even out the size difference) someone small isn't likely to be considered a threat while someone big is.

At some point a giant suffers from the "better safe to get rid of it just to be sure."
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Old 05-18-2022, 01:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
In lower TL games cheap ST/HP, greater reach, and easy grappling is a very powerful combination. It also adds to Intimidation.

[...]

So, yes, in a game of high-/ultra-tech murder-hobos large size isn't worth much. In a low-/high-tech game where non-lethal violence is common, it's great.
Meanwhile, low SM is quite overpowered, especially in a super-hero setting where tiny heroes being strong/tough/fast is totally fine. You can create an Ant-Man with SM-10 and ST enough to slam enemies like the bullet from a rifle. Or, for even more OP-ness create an SM-10 fairy with telekinetic powers. Either way most people won't see you, much less succeed in hitting you with attacks.

I agree with those saying SM should have a cost and adjust ST/HP along with it. It could be balanced to make being a 5 meter giant be an interesting option, and be given more points for stuff like poor accessibility to equipment in the setting (if the setting has fewer SM+2 gear than SM+0).

The current (upwards) SM system mostly benefits huge 'No Fine Manipulator' monsters, or even more absurdly huge humanoids (since after a certain point ST just gets so cheap). And since frankly, I don't think a lot of of GMs run campaigns that include a 50 meter adventurer, it strikes me as more important that large-but-less-outrageously-huge PC feel like a good deal. :)
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Old 05-18-2022, 01:58 PM   #26
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
That all depends on the context of how you're encountering someone.

In a dark alley (or out in the wilderness, anywhere others aren't around to even out the size difference) someone small isn't likely to be considered a threat while someone big is.

At some point a giant suffers from the "better safe to get rid of it just to be sure."
Yeah but if you're a human(oid) then other humans assume that you can be reasoned with, and giants are part of many mythologies.
Statues to people tend to be big, too.

If you are a large human, then you'd be more likely to be revered than feared, unless there is actual war or strife or just danger, yeah.
But in normal society? You'd be pretty well regarded, I'd say.
Especially if you're good looking.

If you're some troglodyte looking creature then yeah ok. But basically a human but big?
People love that.

Like this here (much larger than SM+1 tho):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ZGoPUErmQ

If you were this statue, but lounging on the hill, being alive and real and all that.
Well, sure, you'd have a sword but, you know.

What's really there to fear if you're not acting hostile.
Plumbers will probably give you bad lookswith a passion..but otherwise?
All good.

Especially if you're on their side.

Last edited by Lovewyrm; 05-18-2022 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 05-18-2022, 02:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

Does anyone remember where to find that pricing breakdown of all the components of SM? Like where benefits/drawbacks were given advantage/disadvantage that all worked out to zero?

That way we could tailor adjustments to just those components wherever it was different, like if you wanted to make it so giants didn't cost more FP to enchant.
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Old 05-18-2022, 02:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Does anyone remember where to find that pricing breakdown of all the components of SM? Like where benefits/drawbacks were given advantage/disadvantage that all worked out to zero?
As far as I know no such breakdown has ever been officially done, and unofficial breakdowns show positive SM as being a fairly significant disadvantage, negative as an advantage (e.g. here).
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Old 05-18-2022, 02:23 PM   #29
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

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Originally Posted by Lovewyrm View Post
Yeah but if you're a human(oid) then other humans assume that you can be reasoned with, and giants are part of many mythologies.
In a modern civilization where the threats are few and far between, you may have demoted safety to a secondary concern. In many fantasy and less civilized societies the primary consideration is "will this hurt me".

Giants often are the monsters and historic foes. Just look at Greek mythology - giants are foes and a released titan could herald the end of society.

Quote:
Statues to people tend to be big, too.
Statues tend not to move. In a world where statues are prone to attacking people, you'd be cautious of them.

Like I said above - it's how and where you encounter someone. Where others can't help you, people are naturally cautious of someone approaching them, especially if that person is obviously larger (presumably stronger).

Quote:
If you're some troglodyte looking creature then yeah ok. But basically a human but big?
Looks already confer reaction modifiers, so I'd leave them out of the equation.

My experience has been that most people are leery of large animals (horses, elephants, cows) simply due to size, until you get figure out how such animals typically behave. I'd ignore a small dog yipping where I'd make sure a bigger dog was friendly.

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Especially if you're on their side.
Sure, experience will allow you to replace initial impressions with other modifiers.
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Old 05-18-2022, 02:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: What has high SM ever done for us?

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
In a modern civilization where the threats are few and far between, you may have demoted safety to a secondary concern. In many fantasy and less civilized societies the primary consideration is "will this hurt me".

Giants often are the monsters and historic foes. Just look at Greek mythology - giants are foes and a released titan could herald the end of society.

Statues tend not to move. In a world where statues are prone to attacking people, you'd be cautious of them.

Like I said above - it's how and where you encounter someone. Where others can't help you, people are naturally cautious of someone approaching them, especially if that person is obviously larger (presumably stronger).


Looks already confer reaction modifiers, so I'd leave them out of the equation.

My experience has been that most people are leery of large animals (horses, elephants, cows) simply due to size, until you get figure out how such animals typically behave. I'd ignore a small dog yipping where I'd make sure a bigger dog was friendly.


Sure, experience will allow you to replace initial impressions with other modifiers.
Well, the titan angle is a good point, but I didn't base my side of the argument on attacking statues, or animals, etc.

But purely on humanish character, and while I don't know how you think, I doubt you'd fear an 8 or 10 foot tall human intrinsically.
Maybe if you got spooked, but what if he went "Whoa! Sorry didn't mean to startle you! Are you okay?"

But then? Well, maybe still then.

I think this is just a disagreement on human behavior.
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