Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2022, 10:27 AM   #71
Gold & Appel Inc
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: One Mile Up
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That was explicitly the point of both the Nazi episode and the Mafia episode. But I have to say I found both of them dumb, though not as dumb as the Roman Empire episode or the Yankees/Communists episode (which seems to be generally considered the worst OST ever). If I were to run a Star Trek campaign I would be trying to emulate what I considered the more intelligent episodes.
Guess we appreciate different aspects of the source material; I ran headlong into the dumb with my arms flung wide to give it a loving embrace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qoltar View Post
Well, you are wrong on your basic assumptions there. The 'Planet of Hats' trope comes from a Saturday morning live action kids show called I believe "Lidsville". I watched it when I was a little kid in the 1970s.
I'm talking about this trope, to be clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qoltar View Post
If you want to 'punch Nazis' as you put it - there are plenty of other game settings you can do that in.

- Ed c.
Don't taze me, bro! ;)
Gold & Appel Inc is offline  
Old 05-19-2022, 10:27 AM   #72
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
And since I would be trying for substantive SF, not pop SF, I would be looking at the effects of time travel in books and stories. Bringing about German victories isn't all that common there; the closest analog I can think of is the novel where a time traveler inadvertently changes history so that the South lost the War between the States.
I think it's more a pop SF trope when it comes to Hitler/the Nazis and time travel - killing Hitler before he can do anything horrible either results in someone worse (which generally means just as bad of a person, but more stable) taking his place, or in at least one case means you just killed the person who was born Adolf Hitler and he gets replaced by another baby, who grows up to the be historical Hitler. Heck, TVTropes even has an entry for it - Hitler's Time Travel Exemption Act. An aversion of the trope in Animorphs was interesting - due to the villain having already screwed up the timeline by that point, when he arrives during WWII to help the Nazis, the Nazis don't exist, and Adolf Hitler is just a driver for one of the generals on the maybe-Axis side (which the kids eventually realize they don't even know if maybe-Axis are the baddies, the maybe-Allies are the baddies, or if either side is really on any sort of moral right side). That doesn't stop Tobias from tearing his throat out, of course.

But that's not really relevant to Star Trek, and while I enjoy punching Nazis as much as the next guy, I'm with Bill and Qoltar that it's something that's more appropriate in a setting of the appropriate time period. Sometimes Space Nazis (tm) can be an option as well, but seem... lazy.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul

Last edited by Varyon; 05-19-2022 at 10:31 AM.
Varyon is offline  
Old 05-19-2022, 10:30 AM   #73
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That was explicitly the point of both the Nazi episode and the Mafia episode. But I have to say I found both of them dumb, though not as dumb as the Roman Empire episode or the Yankees/Communists episode (which seems to be generally considered the worst OST ever). If I were to run a Star Trek campaign I would be trying to emulate what I considered the more intelligent episodes.
Actually "And The Children Shall Lead" is generally regarded as the worst OST ever with "Spock's Brain" a close second.

Though "Patterns of Force", "A Piece of the Action", "Bread and Circuses", and "The Omega Glory" do have issues.

"Patterns of Force" requires John Gill to have kept rolling 18s on his history check.
"A Piece of the Action" there are so many other books the other starship could have left behind that would have made things even more of a mess (Captain, have you seen my copy of Lord of the Rings?).
"Bread and Circuses" and "The Omega Glory" push suspicion of disbelief off the nearest cliff and directly conflict Spock's claim in "A Piece of the Action" that a culture so similar to a period in Earth's history was "fantastically slim".
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline  
Old 05-19-2022, 10:46 AM   #74
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
My recollection is that Star Trek had three time travel episodes: "Tomorrow Is Yesterday," "The City on the Edge of Forever," and "Assignment: Earth." Only one of them led to a German victory; as far as I can tell, the other two didn't change history (though there was a risk of that happening in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday"), and they certainly didn't affect the outcome of World War II.
Actually there were two more episodes with time travel ("Naked Time" and "All Our Yesterdays") but they didn't involve Earth. "Spectre of the Gun" could work as a holodeck goes haywire TNG episode.

"Naked Time" is a weird one as it seems to be a safer method of time travel than the sling shot around a sun and hope you don't burn up but no mention of it in any later official material is ever made. Neither is the implications of having two Enterprises for three days.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline  
Old 05-19-2022, 12:13 PM   #75
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
the Yankees/Communists episode (which seems to be generally considered the worst OST ever).
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Actually "And The Children Shall Lead" is generally regarded as the worst OST ever with "Spock's Brain" a close second.
Are "The Empath" and "The Way to Eden" just simply so bad that the trauma has made everyone blot them out of their conscious memories?
Stormcrow is offline  
Old 05-19-2022, 02:09 PM   #76
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
Are "The Empath" and "The Way to Eden" just simply so bad that the trauma has made everyone blot them out of their conscious memories?
Oh "The Empath" and "The Way to Eden" are bad but nowhere "And The Children Shall Lead" and "Spock's Brain" levels. Funny thing is "The Way to Eden" conflicts with Star Trek V as Kirk had already gone to Eden but he doesn't bring it up.

On the TL one must remember that ^ means superscience which as even Ultra-Tech relates "there is no reason superscience can’t appear earlier."
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline  
Old 05-19-2022, 02:48 PM   #77
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qoltar View Post
Uh, NO it really doesn't. If you were trying to make a joke, it doesn't read as 'funny'.
Sorry, should have put a :) or /snark tag there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qoltar View Post
Most regular or average gaming campaigns of either 'Prime Directive' or 'Star Trek' will never bump into an alternate reality or a group that looks like that.
No, probably not. With the exception of "The City On the Edge of Forever" nobody's going to put a "Star Trek vs. Nazis" episode at the top of their list of favorite episodes.

Because it's GURPS, the option is always there if the GM really wants it but "Star Trek + WW2 + Parallel Earths" sounds like the old game of "choose three random GURPS books" to create a cool game world.

Last edited by Pursuivant; 05-19-2022 at 03:14 PM.
Pursuivant is offline  
Old 05-19-2022, 03:04 PM   #78
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qoltar View Post
The idea should never be to do 'copy cat' adventures of what we have seen before on screen - but instead believable adventures for the player characters that are plausible in the universe - if the shows had better budgets or more screen time per episode.
Be careful to not generalize from your own preferences.

That said, I agree mostly agree with you, but . . .

I could see a GM ripping off an episode and making some changes as the start point for a ST campaign, especially if you switch the time period and the characters. It's also a chance for the GM to correct some of the teeth-achingly bad plot holes or bad writing in certain episodes.

If the GM wants to be completely cheesy and acknowledge source material, give the characters a chance to make a History skill roll to notice the parallels. ("Didn't Captain Archer face a similar situation once? Computer, access NX-01 Enterprise captain's logs for Earth Year 2153.")

I could also see a near complete ripoff of a classic episode as a one shot adventure for people who aren't familiar with all 800+ episodes.
Pursuivant is offline  
Old 05-19-2022, 03:14 PM   #79
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
TL12^ is where the disintegrators are. The Transporter imitations too. The salt-shaker like personal regnerators and several other things.
My "Head canon" has the ST universe on a timeline with limited early TL9^ technology by 1990, but mostly secret or so expensive most people don't pay attention to it.

Early 22nd century is late TL9^/early TL10^.

Mid-to late 22nd c. is TL10^. 23rd century is TL11^. 24th to early 25th century is 12^.

After that, assume TL12^ as a base, but with an increase in TL for purposes of miniaturization, power generation, prices, etc. every ~150 years.
Pursuivant is offline  
Old 05-19-2022, 03:39 PM   #80
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: What's happening with Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qoltar View Post
Don't use or deal with "time Travel" in a GURPS Star Trek campaign.
Or be prepared to open a massive can of worms if you do.

The only way that Star Trek time travel would work well in GURPS is if you stay away from Earth history or major canon events. Instead, have suitably genetically modified characters go back in time on Vulcan, Andoria, Quonos, or some other planet. That way just about anything the PCs do is "fated" by history. ("Going on campaign with Kahless the Unforgettable was amazing, but if I ever see another bowl of gagh it will be too soon!")

Alternately, have them go back in time to a previous ST era, on the edge of some canon event, with strict orders to not screw up the timeline (e.g., DS9: "Trials and Tribble-ations"
). That allows players who want their PCs to meet canon characters, but not be upstaged by them, a chance to get their fan freak on.
Pursuivant is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.