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Old 12-28-2024, 07:27 PM   #1
JackMarek
 
Join Date: Dec 2024
Default Displaying Expert Backstabbing bonus as a separate line in the weapons section

So, I've been toying with GCA and GURPS for years, but I'll admit I don't know a lot about the deep details of GCA. In DFRPG, there is an "Expert Backstabbing" advantage that adds +1 to STR per level for the purpose of calculating damage only if the attack cannot be blocked or parrying because the target can't see it coming or is completely not expecting it.

I'm wondering if there is a way to add an extra line to a weapon (Smallsword, for example) on the character sheet that calculates this extra damage?
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Old 12-28-2024, 08:22 PM   #2
Stormcrow
 
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Default Re: Displaying Expert Backstabbing bonus as a separate line in the weapons section

I don't have DFRPG, so I can't look up traits that are in it. I think I can answer this, though.

GCA can't determine when a target can't see an attack coming, so the Expert Backstabbing advantage doesn't apply any kind of bonus.

Instead, what I'd do is create a new mode on the smallsword. Select the smallsword and click Edit. Scroll to the bottom of the Edit Traits window and click Edit Modes. In the Edit Modes window, click Add Mode. Click OK on both open windows.

Copy the fields from the original mode to the new mode. For the "mode" field, give the original mode a name like "Thrust," and give the new mode a name like "Undetected." In the damage field, increase the damage amount to whatever it should be including the Expert Backstabbing advantage. OK both windows. That'll do it.

There might be a way to add a gives() to Expert Backstabbing that somehow performs the correct calculation, but I think the logic might be too complicated. What I outline above will get the right numbers on your character sheet, though if you ever change your Strength or your Expert Backstabbing you'll need to manually adjust the smallsword mode, too.
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Old 12-29-2024, 09:47 AM   #3
JackMarek
 
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Default Re: Displaying Expert Backstabbing bonus as a separate line in the weapons section

Stormcrow, thank you so much for your instructions! I figured attack modes had something to do with it, but I didn't know how to configure a new attack mode.

As a follow-up, does anyone know what would be required to make the damage dice values in the new mode update themselves when ST or Expert Backstabbing levels change?

I don't mind having to add the attack modes to the weapon manually, but it would be a huge plus not to have to hard code the damage dice. I mean, once a character is created, those values won't change often, but while creating the character, it would be useful to be able to see the effect.
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Old 12-29-2024, 10:04 AM   #4
Armin
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Default Re: Displaying Expert Backstabbing bonus as a separate line in the weapons section

Unfortunately, the key target tag you need for this to be automated for you is 'effectivest' and that one doesn't work properly with bymode bonuses*, so you kinda need to make a copy of the entire weapon itself, and then give it a name extension such as Undetected, rather than use a new mode. A new mode is cleaner, but doesn't currently work with this method.

So, duplicate the Smallsword equipment item, or add it to the character again, then edit it and give it the name extension Undetected. Then you can edit the Expert Backstabbing advantage to give it a gives bonus. In this example, you could paste this text into the Gives box of Edit Traits for the Expert Backstabbing advantage (but you could use the gives builder, too if you wanted to built it up from bits yourself):

+1 to EQ:Smallsword (Undetected)::effectivest

and that should automatically cause all modes for the weapon to get a bonus to effective ST per level of the advantage.

Notes: 1) Make sure you're giving the bonus to the EQuipment item, NOT the SKill. 2) You can, of course, change Undetected to your preferred name; you just have to differentiate the two Smallsword items so that GCA only bonuses the one of them.

Another small note related to modes: if you click into a mode column in the mode editor dialog, you can right-click and duplicate a mode using the right-click menu option.

(* The effectivest tag doesn't seem to get bonuses 'bymode' like I expected it to, so I'll have to look into that, but that's why it has to be a new item rather than a new mode, because effective st is effectively for the whole item at calculation time, otherwise it will affect every mode even when only one mode was targeted.)
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Old 12-29-2024, 10:10 AM   #5
JackMarek
 
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Default Re: Displaying Expert Backstabbing bonus as a separate line in the weapons section

Thanks Armin for the reply, I really appreciate it!
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Old 12-29-2024, 10:21 AM   #6
Stormcrow
 
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Default Re: Displaying Expert Backstabbing bonus as a separate line in the weapons section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armin View Post
Another small note related to modes: if you click into a mode column in the mode editor dialog, you can right-click and duplicate a mode using the right-click menu option.
I knew there was a way to do that, but I was looking for a button.
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Old 01-13-2025, 04:23 AM   #7
Kheldar
 
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Default Re: Displaying Expert Backstabbing bonus as a separate line in the weapons section

I created a rather long winded way to achieve this.

1. I created a hidden attribute ebs (expert backstab strength) to store the effective strength given by the expert backstab advantage.
2. For the ST attribute and Striking ST advantage and the Expert Backstab advantage created a gives tag gives +1 to ST:ebs
3. created a new mode called backstab for the weapon and for the damage line in the mode put @sw(ST:ebs) for swing damage or @thr(ST:ebs) for thrust.

long winded but it worked for me.
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Last edited by Kheldar; 01-13-2025 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 01-14-2025, 09:21 AM   #8
Armin
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Default Re: Displaying Expert Backstabbing bonus as a separate line in the weapons section

That is, in fact, an excellent way to do the work-around. We used to do that kind of thing way more often, but not so much lately, so I just didn't think about that in this case. But it does do what needs doing using a new mode. Very good!

I'm not sure why you'd need the ST or Striking ST attributes to have a gives for it, though. Without looking at it too closely right now, I'd think you could just base 'ebs' on Striking ST for its starting value and then have the gives() from Expert Backstabbing.

(I'd probably spell out the attribute more so it's less opaque when looking at the code, but that's a personal preference thing.)
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Old 01-14-2025, 01:59 PM   #9
Kheldar
 
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Default Re: Displaying Expert Backstabbing bonus as a separate line in the weapons section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armin View Post

I'm not sure why you'd need the ST or Striking ST attributes to have a gives for it, though. Without looking at it too closely right now, I'd think you could just base 'ebs' on Striking ST for its starting value and then have the gives() from Expert Backstabbing.
that would be because i couldn't work out how to base it on Striking ST, nothing i did seemed to give the right result.

Edit.
After reading your reply i have worked out the correct tag to add to ebs is basevalue ST:Striking ST
no need to put the gives on ST and Striking ST. giving a much neater solution.
Many thanks Armin

Last edited by Kheldar; 01-14-2025 at 03:07 PM. Reason: add a response as I have now worked it out
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