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Old 03-06-2021, 06:37 PM   #11
FJCestero
 
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

I'll jump in here to add my $0.02.

GEVs are also about map control. They get there first and control key terrain. If there's any choke-point the enemy has to get through or open flank that leaves their rear vulnerable -- GEVs are your huckleberry. Enemy has some installation that must be protected? Whose defense would pull disproportionate forces away from the front door/main effort? GEVs are your answer. Want to surround an enemy and force them into a disadvantageous fight? GEVs. Want to execute a defeat-in-detail strategy? GEVs. Want to pin an enemy in place or at least keep him from making fine adjustments to his deployment? Who ya gonna call??

Small units of GEVs are also more menacing than small groups of other units. The flip of this is that if there's any reason why the enemy can't just form up into one big clump, your GEVs can greatly influence how many and the relative sizes of the detachments your enemy can form them into: the smallest one better be in the center where the others can support it or have really good terrain...

GEVs can also concentrate forces faster. They're more flexible and can adapt/redeploy to counter changing situations. They're ambushers without peers.

And last but not least, GEVs keep the other guy's GEVs from doing all of this stuff to you.

So yes, while they lack the simplicity of the heavy and missile tank's raw firepower and range (not that there's anything wrong with those qualities...) a GEV's mobility makes them the masters of every other aspect of OGRE warfare that doesn't depend on raw firepower.
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Old 03-09-2021, 07:58 AM   #12
Misplaced Buckeye
 
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

Following up on FC's comments, remember the Ogre's objective, Forward to the CP. Don't put the GEVs in it's way even in 2nd movement. Attack from the sides and back. Totally agree on the scatter comment posted earlier. The whole purpose of the standard GEV is to slow the beast. Your armor go after the Primaries and missiles first then the treads
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Old 03-09-2021, 09:26 AM   #13
selenite
 
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

Not least of the ways to slow the beast is to get behind it and tempt it with an easy kill.
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Old 03-09-2021, 09:59 AM   #14
WyvernKing
 
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

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Originally Posted by FJCestero View Post
GEVs can also concentrate forces faster. They're more flexible and can adapt/redeploy to counter changing situations. They're ambushers without peers.
I tried this in a ceasefire collapse today, but it didn't turn out too well (I may have also taken 43Supporter's advice about terrain too lightly). I think I tried to out manuever my opponents force to early in the game, when they were still all bunched up near his command posts. Would you say that G.E.V.s need to hang back for a bit before they can exploit enemy positions?
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Old 03-09-2021, 10:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

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Originally Posted by Misplaced Buckeye View Post
Following up on FC's comments, remember the Ogre's objective, Forward to the CP. Don't put the GEVs in it's way even in 2nd movement. Attack from the sides and back. Totally agree on the scatter comment posted earlier. The whole purpose of the standard GEV is to slow the beast. Your armor go after the Primaries and missiles first then the treads
Hmm, I normally focus fire treads but suffer heavy casualties, I'll have to try this out next time I take on the Ogre.
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Old 03-09-2021, 10:41 AM   #16
HeatDeath
 
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

The way the math works out, you virtually always want to be making 1:1 attacks.

With this premise in mind, look at the attack values on the conventional units and the defense values on the Ogre systems, and some tactics will immediately suggest themselves:
  • HVYs are optimized to take out main batteries, missiles, and treads.
  • MSLs are optimized for secondary batteries and treads.
  • Full strength INF platoons are optimized for SBs, and treads.
  • GEVs don't seem to be optimized for anything, except, as noted above, if you send them in once the Ogre's strike range is less than the GEV's retreat range (which is to say, the MBs, missiles, and one movement point are gone), they can attack treads with impunity. That's very powerful. You can also pair their fire with single infantry squads to make 1:1s on SBs.
  • Howitzers are an extravagant waste of firepower on anything except treads, but if the Ogre has missiles remaining by the time it gets under a hostile artillery umbrella, those need to go first, by any means necessary. [A surviving missile is an instant win for the Ogre 5 hexes away from the CP. A surviving tread unit is only an instant win for the Ogre at 1 hex away from the CP (assuming, as we should, that you didn't waste firepower eliminating its AP guns).]
Taking out an Ogre before it gets to your CP requires using your firepower /efficiently/. You have just enough to do it, but you can't afford to waste any.

Your initial first priority is always to lower the Ogre's strike range. You can do this by destroying treads and/or by destroying the MBs and missiles. Obviously, you'll have to do both. If you want your force to survive long enough to eliminate all the treads [which is necessary to win] you /will/ need to destroy all of the MBs, all of the missiles, and at least some of the SBs. Knowing when to switch your priority from SBs to treads is the most complex decision in the whole game.

Last edited by HeatDeath; 03-10-2021 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 03-09-2021, 02:11 PM   #17
Misplaced Buckeye
 
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

As well as being able to roll hits on an average basis. I shot at Steve's Ogre at Origins 125 times. got 10 hits.
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Old 03-09-2021, 04:14 PM   #18
FJCestero
 
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

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Originally Posted by WyvernKing View Post
I tried this in a ceasefire collapse today, but it didn't turn out too well (I may have also taken 43Supporter's advice about terrain too lightly). I think I tried to out manuever my opponents force to early in the game, when they were still all bunched up near his command posts. Would you say that G.E.V.s need to hang back for a bit before they can exploit enemy positions?
Quick question: what were his GEVs doing at this time?

I'd say the value of GEVs is situationally dependent -- because it involves everything not firepower or range (a pair of constants). Speed can also kill, but it usually requires more skill to make the most of it. If you were maneuvering early, while he was close to his CPs then he probably had the interior lines advantage over you. Think two circles of different radius but the same origin. A faster force moving along the outer radius can be countered by a slower force on the inner circle. It is hard to make GEVs work against a mix of heavy and missile tanks... they just have more firepower and better armor. It takes time and patience and paying close attention to terrain and planning your GEV retreats properly. It's definitely an acquired skill. The other "Proof of Mastery" in Ogre is how you manage your infantry -- but that's another topic (and my 'solution' is grab the high 'D' terrain as anvils for my other forces hammers. It's not elegant, but offensive infantry against someone who knows what they're doing is hard. I throw myself on the mercy of the court).

But to answer your question more directly (without knowing the details), is no, it's (almost) never too early to start maneuvering. You maneuvering (done right) forces the other guy to start guessing. It distracts him from his own plans, and that is good. You might not have maneuvered enough, or just done some random/aimless maneuvering (hey, we've all been there) to burn up movement instead of purposeful maneuvering to threaten something he valued, or maybe he just out-thought you. Darned enemies keep wanting to win too!

Last bit: you'll notice the expansion to OGRE was called "GEV". Not "HEAVY TANK", not "MISSILE TANK", not even "MOBILE HOWITZER". Don't think that was without reason.
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Old 03-10-2021, 09:13 AM   #19
selenite
 
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

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Originally Posted by WyvernKing View Post
I tried this in a ceasefire collapse today,
Ceasefire Collapse is not a GEV-friendly scenario. It's a head to head slugfest, the situation where Heavies and Superheavies shine.

I save GEVs for where their mobility helps with the goal.
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Old 03-15-2021, 06:51 AM   #20
WyvernKing
 
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Default Re: G.E.V. unit tactics

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Originally Posted by selenite View Post
Ceasefire Collapse is not a GEV-friendly scenario. It's a head to head slugfest, the situation where Heavies and Superheavies shine.

I save GEVs for where their mobility helps with the goal.
Yeah, I think I'm starting to reach the same conclusion.
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