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Old 02-16-2016, 09:13 PM   #1
VariousRen
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

I'm a player in a low tech, low magic fantasy, and my character has had a long standing goal (quirk level obsession) to construct a castle of his own. That Other Game had a very well written supplement for building castles, forts, hideouts, ect. in the form of the Stronghold Builders Guide.

We thought about setting a conversion rate between the books (Initial talks lean towards a guess of about 1gp to $50), but the books make an assumption that magic is common and used wherever it's economical. Because the world we play in is low magic, this assumption doesn't hold.

Does anyone have any experience creating player structures in GURPS, either using SBG as a base or using other rules? If SBG is the way to go, does anyone have a reasonable conversion rate suggestion?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:30 PM   #2
Rockwolf66
 
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Default Re: Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

I'm not sure how much this helps but the following says that it costs between $200~600 a square foot of living space to build a castle.

Castle building Link
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Old 02-16-2016, 11:49 PM   #3
Zeta Blaze
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Default Re: Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

How low magic are we talking about here?
Are subtle magics in use? are they common? Is big magic a thing but super rare? Is most magic deals with magical entities who do things for you? I need more information of what magic if any is available to set a handle on what you can do because subtle magic coupled with expert mundane skill can work wonders and still not feel like magic.

All in all the magic use assumed in the Stronghold Builders Guide (SBG here on out) has a much stronger influence on the time it takes to construct the structure than in How much it costs In the SBG a modest Castle can be raised in a couple of months to a few years tops but in real life even modest castle was the work of decades (ignoring periods where construction halts due to lack of funds) and exorbitant cost increases could only speed it up to a small degree. in essence you cant build yourself a castle in the real world but you can build your son or grandson a castle.

All in all i would estimate that all construction costs should double without magic and almost all time costs increase by at least a factor of 10. The things that would change less are very expensive finishing like rooms lined in gold and rare woods. Without magic your raw materials will vary much more wildly in cost both up and down and most of the furnishings would take roughly the time listed (at most double) as that is a good first order approximation of there craft time. Though If you have limited craftsmen of sufficient skill you may have a bottle neck as to how much you can do over a given time at that high quality level thus limiting how much you can spend but the GP/time ratio seems about right.

Also if you look in the SBG you will note that it lists cost savings for a PC who can and will cast there own major architectural spells. as an additional discount That is roughly representative of the labor costs each casting of such a spell can reasonably represent.
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Old 02-17-2016, 12:24 AM   #4
VariousRen
 
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Default Re: Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

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Originally Posted by Zeta Blaze View Post
How low magic are we talking about here?
For this assume no magic is in use, if we're using magic it's the PC's using their abilities, and that we can work out in game once we have some basic numbers to work from. Magic isn't necessarily uncommon, but it isn't a constructive force most of the time.
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Old 02-17-2016, 12:32 AM   #5
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

I created some base rules in my article "What's in a Lair?" from Pyramid #3/86: Organizations. They are designed to work with any TL. It's not "GURPS Architecture," but it'll get the job done.
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Old 02-17-2016, 12:39 AM   #6
Curmudgeon
 
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Default Re: Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

Probably your best source is Matt Riggsby's GURPS Architecture which is still available at www.mindspring.com/wombat3. [wombat3 is Matt Riggsby.] GURPS Architecture does not presume any use of magic in construction, though you could probably use magic. GURPS Architecture covers more than just Low Tech architecture and more than just castles but it will get the job done. If you have to import some materials because they aren't natively available, you may want to look at his Silk and Spices article from Pyramid Vol. 1 #26, which is also available on his website, as it deals with transportation costs among other things.

By the by, nice to see your updated campaign history.
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Old 02-17-2016, 02:31 AM   #7
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by VariousRen View Post
I'm a player in a low tech, low magic fantasy, and my character has had a long standing goal (quirk level obsession) to construct a castle of his own. That Other Game had a very well written supplement for building castles, forts, hideouts, ect. in the form of the Stronghold Builders Guide.

We thought about setting a conversion rate between the books (Initial talks lean towards a guess of about 1gp to $50), but the books make an assumption that magic is common and used wherever it's economical. Because the world we play in is low magic, this assumption doesn't hold.

Does anyone have any experience creating player structures in GURPS, either using SBG as a base or using other rules? If SBG is the way to go, does anyone have a reasonable conversion rate suggestion?

Thanks in advance!
Seconded GURPS Architecture. I would not assume that the 3e D&D Stronghold Builders' Guide has any connection to a reality outside the reality of game balance and maybe a Wikipedia page or two ... most game writers are not in to research, or don't know where to find sources.
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Old 02-17-2016, 04:23 AM   #8
Anders
 
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Default Re: Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

LTC3 has information on cost weight, HP, HT, and DR for structures, although you will have to do a lot of math. Pages 33-37.
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Old 02-17-2016, 04:55 PM   #9
VariousRen
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default Re: Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Probably your best source is Matt Riggsby's GURPS Architecture which is still available at www.mindspring.com/wombat3. [wombat3 is Matt Riggsby.] GURPS Architecture does not presume any use of magic in construction, though you could probably use magic. GURPS Architecture covers more than just Low Tech architecture and more than just castles but it will get the job done. If you have to import some materials because they aren't natively available, you may want to look at his Silk and Spices article from Pyramid Vol. 1 #26, which is also available on his website, as it deals with transportation costs among other things.

By the by, nice to see your updated campaign history.
Link wasn't working, but a quick google search lead to the correct page here: http://www.mindspring.com/~wombat3/archt.html

Just in case anyone else was interested in the same this I am. Thanks for the awesome resources!
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:47 AM   #10
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Default Re: Low Tech Structure Creation Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Probably your best source is Matt Riggsby's GURPS Architecture
FWIW, I wouldn't recommend that. There are a few useful ideas lurking there, but it's out of date and over-complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
LTC3 has information on cost weight, HP, HT, and DR for structures, although you will have to do a lot of math. Pages 33-37.
LTC3 is probably better, though, as Anders notes, it still requires a lot of math. On my to-do list are finishing a TL5-8 extension of the rules in LTC3 (or rather, writing something I've started) and maybe coming up with some representative pieces which can be assembled into larger castles, palace complexes, and towns. In my copious spare time, of course.
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