12-03-2021, 12:27 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Human vs Giant / Pole-Axe - Close Combat Tactics?
Hi everyone,
I've been reading Melee and ITL trying to find a reference to "getting inside someone's defenses" in melee combat. What I mean is this: if a human armed with, say, a short sword, is fighting someone with a pole weapon, or a large opponent like a giant with a massive and long club, he's initially at a serious disadvantage because he simply can't get close enough to strike - his opponent is "fending him off" with either a long-reach weapon or with a large weapon plus naturally long reach (the giant). BUT, if that human with a short sword manages to get past that long-reach attack / defense combo, to get "inside his opponent's defenses" and close enough to strike, the situation is suddenly reversed; the pole-arm wielder or giant suddenly has difficulty attacking an opponent at very close quarters who's busy getting stabby with a close-work weapon. I'd kind of assumed this situation would be covered in the combat rules, but I'm having trouble finding any kind of reference, and I'd assumed it would be a key part of tactics in those kind of combats. Am I missing something? Cheers, Sarah |
12-03-2021, 02:04 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Human vs Giant / Pole-Axe - Close Combat Tactics?
I've been gleaning through ITL looking for answers to the above, and I'm wondering if the "Pike" section on ITL p132 might hold a solution. I'm quoting the relevant paragraph, but I'm substituting "REACH ATTACK COMBATANT" for pikeman, as for my purposes this could also refer to a 3-hex giant with a massive club holding a human-sized figure at bay.
Quote:
The main thing missing from the pike section (but maybe implied in the text) is that I feel the 3-hex giant with a really big club (or other reach attack combatant) should be able to attack a human-sized target at a 2-hex separation, and that human-sized target should be engaged at that point. What does everyone think? I'm trying to extrapolate rather than house-rule as such, but it strikes me there's a possible solution to winkle out of the existing rules. Cheers, Sarah |
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12-03-2021, 06:52 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Human vs Giant / Pole-Axe - Close Combat Tactics?
Hi Sarah,
There is a difference between house rules and special attacks of various creatures. Sounds to me you are creating a type of giant. I would not call this house rules. About the standard giant in TFT, it has a 1 hex range with its club or even fist attack. I know some GMs have their own giants with a 2 hex range club. As far as the pike reach attack goes, the reason it cannot attack adjacent hexes is due to the shape of the pike itself (very long and unable to stab someone too close). If you were to create a giant with a long club, I would say it can still be used verses adjacent hexes. But that would be your call. BTW, there are creatures (uncle teeth) and melee weapons in TFT (spear/polearm jab & whip) that can attack more than 1 hex away, that are not thrown or missile. These do not engage at ranges more than 1 hex, nor do they employ the pike's attack during movement. But like I said, if this is something special about your giant, feel free to create this combat mechanic (2 hex range engaging) for it. |
12-03-2021, 07:21 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
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Re: Human vs Giant / Pole-Axe - Close Combat Tactics?
The intention is clear here, even if the wording isn't quite explicit. Sorry, I had my own asinine misreading. Henry said "pike axe" and I thought of the monstrous "pike". I'm a bit thick. Last edited by phiwum; 12-03-2021 at 07:52 AM. |
12-03-2021, 07:30 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Human vs Giant / Pole-Axe - Close Combat Tactics?
Quote:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/butt_spike Whether they had a butt spike or not, it would be a killing blow on a rat. No need for additional rules here. |
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12-03-2021, 07:50 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: Human vs Giant / Pole-Axe - Close Combat Tactics?
Note that a human can't strike a giant in her own hex with a Pike Axe.
ITL 126: "He can declare himself in HTH combat with the giant, and try to hit him or draw his dagger"
__________________
-HJC |
12-03-2021, 08:12 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Human vs Giant / Pole-Axe - Close Combat Tactics?
Quote:
The butt spike is just part of the overall weapon. Just saying it is not unimaginable for it to be used on rats at close range. |
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12-03-2021, 08:20 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Human vs Giant / Pole-Axe - Close Combat Tactics?
Quote:
(I might also consider how the Cavalry Lance rules say that to the side of the horse, the lance can only bash for a lot less damage. The club might be like that. Though a giant's unarmed attack is usually not bad either, so someone who ran inside the club's best reach might get kicked...) That is, it wouldn't Engage someone trying to run past the club, but the club could attack during movement. If you do want smaller figures to need to stop further out, you could do that too, but it would mean no one could try their luck to survive getting past the attack. Of course, people might WANT to stop if attacked, so they get the option to dodge or defend, since that club is likely going to do lethal damage if it hits. |
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Tags |
close combat, close quarters, human vs giant, polearms, reach weapons |
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