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Old 01-10-2012, 05:44 PM   #1
JCurwen3
 
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Default Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

The way I read Supernatural Durability is that you can keep hacking at the guy, but unless you use that "one specific item" (and / or something to which they have a Vulnerability), or do one single blow that does 10 x HP at once, the guy's still alive.

Technically, does this mean he can get into unlimited negative HP, like -100 x HP, or even -10M x HP? Or should it just be capped somewhere (like -10 x HP)?

Normally -10 x HP represents destruction of the body; what is the state of the supernaturally durable character at such high negative HP?

Other than the last question (the state of the body), which I normally waive away as "it's Supernatural" but can't honestly answer, I'm fairly certain I understand it as yes, you can get into unlimited negative HP, and it isn't capped.

This was all sparked by a debate I had with one of my players about the advantage - just intellectual curiosity / looking for a tie-breaker, as it isn't relevant to our game and I don't generally allow the advantage even for my own NPCs.
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

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Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
I don't generally allow the advantage even for my own NPCs.
As far as I can tell this is the only course of true wisdom. I don't allow Ads, Disads ,Skils, spells/whatever when I don't understand how they should work.

When someone as immersed in the system as I am has spent as much time on this as I have and it still doesn't make sense, call it broken and move on.

The best that i can tell you si that _I think_ there's an IT:No Consciousness Rolls with an unknown price in there somewere. Also IT:Unbreakable Bones (only whle above 0Hp) and Hiugh Pain Threshold. The rest might be for Unkillable I or II.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

It seems to be written that way
It is like Unkillable 2 with Achilles and a few other minor limitations thrown in plus IT or Immunity to pain and shock.
Oh and I mostly use it for NPCs but I have given it to a few Supers and my current world all weres get it in their transformed state.
Helps them a lot against the Vampires.

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Old 01-10-2012, 06:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

Yup, unless they get nailed by their weakness or a single hit of 10xHP, they just keep on taking damage. I usually stop bothering paying attention at -10xHP, but technically they can take unlimited amounts of damage without dying.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

Yeah, SD allows going indefinitely. I don't use it as a power, I don't really get what it's for -- if I want people to be able to knock it out but not kill it I'll use Unkillable 2, otherwise I'll just give it loads of DR.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

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Yup, unless they get nailed by their weakness or a single hit of 10xHP, they just keep on taking damage. I usually stop bothering paying attention at -10xHP, but technically they can take unlimited amounts of damage without dying.
Which in a strange way equates to having infinite HP under some (most) circumstances... which I guess I already read and even understood, but it makes this one of the wackiest traits in the game (no wonder my player just can't buy that it works that way).

Note that there is a distinction between no longer keeping track past -10xHP (again, are we expected to imagine they aren't pulp by then?!) and tracking them past that number - if you effectively cap at -10xHP (and then say "screw it" to tracking further losses), it makes it easier for the being to regenerate back up to positive HP (at which point they regain their full Move and their immunity to crippling injuries).

Who knows, maybe the reason Jason Voorhees always seemed so slow was that he could never seem to regenerate back up to positive HP from that huge negative HP total he racks up both in (and presumably between) the movies, so he's always at half Move... ;-)
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

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Who knows, maybe the reason Jason Voorhees always seemed so slow was that he could never seem to regenerate back up to positive HP from that huge negative HP total he racks up both in (and presumably between) the movies, so he's always at half Move... ;-)
To be honest almost certainly true under the rules. Supernatural Durability is for those relatively rare ciinematic character that can only be killed by weapons that would normally be considered overkill against any other target or by its "secret weakness". Jason Voorhees is a very good example of supernatural durability in play as would be the Terminator or several examples of Vampires/undead in fiction.

If I remember right Supernatural durability first appeared in a slightly altered form called I believe Vampiric Durability back in Gurps Vampire Masquerade to represent vampires resilience to injury from non-aggravated sources.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

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Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
Note that there is a distinction between no longer keeping track past -10xHP (again, are we expected to imagine they aren't pulp by then?!) and tracking them past that number - if you effectively cap at -10xHP (and then say "screw it" to tracking further losses), it makes it easier for the being to regenerate back up to positive HP (at which point they regain their full Move and their immunity to crippling injuries).
It definitely is not for every game.
But at a certain point your limbs will be crippled so that covers the pulp part. A lot of the rest is just blow through.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

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To be honest almost certainly true under the rules. Supernatural Durability is for those relatively rare ciinematic character that can only be killed by weapons that would normally be considered overkill against any other target or by its "secret weakness". Jason Voorhees is a very good example of supernatural durability in play as would be the Terminator or several examples of Vampires/undead in fiction.
Those examples are typically better represented by a combination of high defenses with a vulnerability.
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Originally Posted by Nosforontu View Post
If I remember right Supernatural durability first appeared in a slightly altered form called I believe Vampiric Durability back in Gurps Vampire Masquerade to represent vampires resilience to injury from non-aggravated sources.
Or, in this case, Unkillable 2 with Achilles Heel (fire or aggravated damage) and Hindrance (cannot recover while staked).
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:19 PM   #10
JCurwen3
 
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Default Re: Supernatural Durability at -10 x HP

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Originally Posted by Nosforontu View Post
To be honest almost certainly true under the rules. Supernatural Durability is for those relatively rare ciinematic character that can only be killed by weapons that would normally be considered overkill against any other target or by its "secret weakness". Jason Voorhees is a very good example of supernatural durability in play as would be the Terminator or several examples of Vampires/undead in fiction.

If I remember right Supernatural durability first appeared in a slightly altered form called I believe Vampiric Durability back in Gurps Vampire Masquerade to represent vampires resilience to injury from non-aggravated sources.
I wouldn't build the Terminator with SD... it's so damned bizarre an advantage and so thoroughly circumvents GURPS's normal relatively realistic "HP logic" that it only seems appropriate for unambiguously supernatural creatures; Terminator is better with very high DR, high ST, one or more IT (like Unliving), stuff like that, IMO.

SD is meant for guys like Jason (and those odd vampire cases), but I was always concerned when thinking of building him that the "special weakness" didn't quite apply. Sure, Jason had issues with water, but it never killed him (as SD would require). Jason seemed to have SD and Unkillable 2 (which to me means even if "killed" normally by his weakness or even blown apart he's instantly "reduced" to -10xHP and then he starts regenerating and eventually "gets better"), with a possible Achilles' Heel of "being blown apart by a single attack that does 10xHP all at once" (but I think in Jason X he may have, with technological assistance, even overcome that!).
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