Steve Jackson Games Forums Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity
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06-30-2022, 02:29 PM   #21
KarlKost

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Varyon If he starts 20 yards away, sure. But guns can be used from much further away than 20 yards. Someone who is 40x faster than a normal human would move at a rate of 200 yards per second, which is impressive... but there's only 0.1 seconds between bullets.
Someone that moves 40x times faster than an average human - which would be V400 (which would also cost 24.000CP such as is by the way) would perform 1 action every 0.025s. That's 4x times than each bullet leaves the gun. This means that, in the inbetween of one bullet and the next, such person would have acted 4 times. If he has a mere average human HT (10), his Basic Move would be 5, meaning that should he decide to use all those actions just to move, he would've covered 20 yards (roughly 20 meters) before the second bullet left the gun IN ANY DIRECTION. So, unless you're stupid enough to just simply dive in front of the weapon, even if you're 1 km away (or 1 mile) that wouldnt be a problem since you're effectively impossible to follow; not to mention that you'd get a bonus of +390 to your dodge (as long as you can be aware of the attack of course), so the only way to be hit would be A.) Running straight foward in exact the direction from which the fast moving objects are comming from and B.) Rolling a critical failure at the Dodge roll.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Varyon Due to the way things are constructed here, a normal V10 character who happens to be next in the initiative order can easily get an action before more than one or two bullets have been fired. How do you handle that? It's not realistic that such a normal character would be able to cover a full 5 yards (his Move) and dive behind cover after only a single bullet has been fired. Also, if a target does move, does the shooter have the option of tracking them, or are they stuck shooting where the target used to be? In the latter case, a normal human can get out of the way of the bulk of a burst of fire simply by taking a Step, if he or she is lucky enough to be right behind the shooter in the initiative order.
Yes, I probably forgot to explain this part. You start your action by the beggining of your tick acount, but only finish it by the start of the next.

As an hypothetical example: assume we have 2 fighters, the first that has a tick account (after all the math done by the app) of 300, and the second with a tick of 200.

So, obviously the one with 200 ticks will act 1.5 faster. So let's see:

A 200 ticks (starts 1st action)
B 300 ticks (starts 1st action)
A 400 (concludes 1st action and starts 2sd)
A 600 (concludes 2sd ction, starts 3rd), B 600 (concludes 1st action, starts 2sd)

This means that, at 400 ticks, Fighter A can actually "interrupt" the Fighter B action midway (with a knockback from a punch, for instance), BEFORE Fighter B have actually had time to conclude it.

Imagine me or yourself fighting Bruce Lee. We start a good punch on his face when BAM! We dont even finish the movement of our arms because he hit us in the face and we lose our balance, tripping behind. Our arm never even got near his face. It would play just like I described for the example above - which would be EXACTLY a fight between a V10 average human and a V15 human max, the V15 would hit us once (lets assume he misses this time, just so we a chance), we start our movement towards his face, but midway to reach it, the Martial Artist hit us again BEFORE we reach his face (and probably knocking us down with a broken jaw)

06-30-2022, 02:31 PM   #22
DangerousThing

Join Date: Mar 2013
Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

Quote:
 Originally Posted by David Johnston2 Is that a problem? Seems kind of like how comic book super-speed actually works. It's actually how the Flash can go up against a skilled guy with gimmicked boomerang or an ice gun and they at least get to get one lick in.
Personally I represent a speedster punching some ridiculous amount of times as an innate attack. It makes it much easier than meddling with the length of a combat turn.
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 06-30-2022, 02:44 PM #23 KarlKost   Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Brazil Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity In this, initiative will only count towards the very start of combat, and only for surprise; at every full reaction-time, the surprised person gets to roll IQ normally to "snap out" of it. So, someone that has V20 and acts once every 0.5 seconds, would get 2 attempts to snap out of surprise per second. Someone with V1000 would get 100! And probably would murder any of the attackers that "surprised" him before they could even pull a trigger (for example, if it took him 20 rolls to recover from surprise, he would still have a good 0.8 seconds left to act - enough to act 80 times lol). When combat begins, it's like a "mini-surprise": everybody rolls, the lower initiative starts; let us give an example: Fighter A - 500 ticks; critical success on initiative, acts first Fighter B - 200 ticks; not so good in the initiative roll So, the first one to act due to initiative, starts his action IMMEDIATLY; all others can only start acting AFTER a FULL tick account. So: Tick 0: A starts first action Tick 200: B starts first action Tick 400: B finishes first action, starts second Tick 500: only now A concludes his first action (assuming he wasnt interrupted) and starts his second. This means that a Speedster much faster than the adversary can "catch up" even if he failed initially to "begin hostilities". This would be the case of one of us seeing Bruce Lee on the streets and trying to test our luck, out of the blue; even thou we began the action, he probably would hit us before we even managed to conclude our pathetic attempt
06-30-2022, 02:46 PM   #24
KarlKost

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

Quote:
 Originally Posted by zoncxs A = 5 B = 3 C = 1 D = 0 Assuming that is also the initiative order. then the order is: A,B,C,A,B,A,B,A,A,A,B,C,D
Yeah.. Doesnt make much sense. Those should be equally distributed all over

06-30-2022, 02:54 PM   #25
KarlKost

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Fred Brackin They all take their complete number of Maneuvers in inititiative order. You start choosing Maneuvers when your turn begins. Then you play out the effects of those Maneuvers in one block and you remain in the status (AoA, AoD, etc) of your last maneuver until your next Turn begins with another round of Maneuver choices. After you've played out the effects of your last Maneuver the Turn of the next player in the initiative order begins and so on. If you want to break up the effects of ATR to deny the possessor one of its' most important benefits......well, it's _your_ game but you're way out in House Rules land.
This entire thread is a house rule. There's no possible way to break ATR into packages of 10 (let alone in pieces of 1000 as I would make possible for Velocity) under RAW.

For super fast actors, it doesnt change much: someone with V20 will act first, then also act another time while someone with V10 will only act after those 2.

This gets interesting however when considering someone with ATR 0.2 against someone with ATR 0.45 thou.

And this works equally way for Superspeed just as much as it works for just slightly faster/slower speeds, so it doesnt just go for sonic vs the turtle, but it actually serves well for the "Great White Dragon" vs "The Fury of the East" in a martial arts tournament.

Last edited by KarlKost; 06-30-2022 at 03:05 PM.

06-30-2022, 03:03 PM   #26
KarlKost

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

Quote:
 Originally Posted by David Johnston2 Is that a problem? Seems kind of like how comic book super-speed actually works. It's actually how the Flash can go up against a skilled guy with gimmicked boomerang or an ice gun and they at least get to get one lick in.
That actually usually involves Flash doing something stupid.

Since he gets 1 billion actions before his adversaries, that in game mechanics terms would mean he gets a critical failure along those.

Lets forget those absurdly high numbers thou, because either with RAW ATR or my "Velocity", the amount of CPs to reach such ridiculous amounts would make a God look like a noob. The Flash for example moves at light speed (even faster), that would require 60 MILLIONS of levels of ATR, or 60 BILLIONS of char points. So lets forget that absurdity for a while.

06-30-2022, 03:33 PM   #27
Anthony

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

Quote:
 Originally Posted by KarlKost That actually usually involves Flash doing something stupid.
It's comic books. That's equivalent to "That involves the Flash doing what he normally does". A "turn" in a comic book is a panel, and guess what: the Flash doesn't get more panels than Batman.
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06-30-2022, 03:57 PM   #28
zoncxs

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: earth....I think.
Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

Quote:
 Originally Posted by KarlKost Yeah.. Doesnt make much sense. Those should be equally distributed all over
Sorry, I always confuse ATR with Enhanced Time Sense (ETS). So that changes the order to:

A = 5
B = 3
C = 1
D = 0

A,A,A,A,A,A,B,B,B,B,C,C,D

If they Also have ETS, I would house rule what I did in the original post.

06-30-2022, 08:35 PM   #29
KarlKost

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

Quote:
 Originally Posted by zoncxs Sorry, I always confuse ATR with Enhanced Time Sense (ETS). So that changes the order to: A = 5 B = 3 C = 1 D = 0 A,A,A,A,A,A,B,B,B,B,C,C,D If they Also have ETS, I would house rule what I did in the original post.
That's even worse!

06-30-2022, 08:36 PM   #30
KarlKost

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Anthony It's comic books. That's equivalent to "That involves the Flash doing what he normally does". A "turn" in a comic book is a panel, and guess what: the Flash doesn't get more panels than Batman.
Yeah well, in that "panel" he does 1 trillion punches thou

 Tags combat, speed, speedsters, turn order, turn sequence

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