Studded Leather Armor - Page 2

Shostak · 03-06-2022, 12:38 PM

With TFT's coarse-grained resolution, would Brigantine's protection and encumbrance make it "Leather Armor" or "Chainmail"? I'm guessing the latter.

Jeff Lord · 03-06-2022, 01:51 PM

If you meant 'brigandine,' I'd concur.

A 'brigantine' is a two-masted sailing vessel. ;)

Shostak · 03-06-2022, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lord

If you meant 'brigandine,' I'd concur.

A 'brigantine' is a two-masted sailing vessel. ;)

Right--cuz Brigantine is a whole boatload more protection than mere chainmail!

Bill_in_IN · 03-06-2022, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shostak

Right--cuz Brigantine is a whole boatload more protection than mere chainmail!

This statement would sound even more cool if spoken in an Eastern European accent.

DanHoward · 03-06-2022, 03:41 PM

The existence of "faux brigandine" confuses the issue. Past writers assumed that it was a type of armour but it was just regular clothing decorated with studs to look like brigandine, which was highly fashionable at the time. Court attendees wanted the fashion of the armour without the burden of the plates.

DanHoward · 03-06-2022, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shostak

With TFT's coarse-grained resolution, would Brigantine's protection and encumbrance make it "Leather Armor" or "Chainmail"? I'm guessing the latter.

Historical brigandine would provide better protection than mail but less than solid plate - assuming similar weights for all of them.

DanHoward · 03-06-2022, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb

Half-plate is just a brigandine worn over chainmail.
When worn over gambeson (the actual "leather armor") it has the effect of chainmail.
So 15 pounds, $100, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzhAhRZzCrA

A few errors here.
1. brigandine was pretty expensive so was actually more popular among the nobility than regular soldiers. The only lower-rankers who wore it had it issued as livery from their lord. A cheaper version called a "jack of plates" was popular among poorer soldiers. The Chalcis armour he discusses is a jack of plates, not a brigandine.

2. His thick padded gambeson was never worn under armour, no matter what time period he is talking about. Under padding was very light - it was designed to stop chafing and improve the fit of the armour, not to increase protection. The padding he is wearing is supposed to be worn over the top, not underneath.

3. The arming doublet he shows with the mail voiders was a lot more important than he seems to think. A decent fighter is trained to aim for the armpit because it was a common vulnerability in most types of armour. The set up he wears provides absolutely no protection at all to this location.

4. He confuses "tailoring" and "custom-fitting". All mail was tailored (with gussets and so on), but it wasn't all custom-fitted. Sleeves weren't always tailored but the torso definitely was. Mail was never the "tube with sleeves" that is commonly available on the market today.

TippetsTX · 03-06-2022, 04:22 PM

So setting aside its dubious historicity, I don't object to studded leather's place in the defensive framework of other FRPG systems. The challenge with TFT, however, is that the current list of armors doesn't leave any room for in-between options like this. My solution was to expand the list and the range of 'hits stopped' (1 thru 9 instead of 6), but that probably won't appeal to everyone.

You can also create new options by altering other aspects of each armor type such as the DX or MA penalties. We do this as well, but its tied to how we define 'fine' armor (fine = fitted in our game which generally translates to a lesser DX penalty).

hcobb · 03-07-2022, 09:25 AM

Shouldn't a brigandine only protect the body, making aimed shots more attractive?

Drakenbow · 10-09-2023, 04:12 AM

Back in the 80s, I picked up three thin booklets made for another game which focused on weapons mostly. Weapons and Castles, Weapons and Assassins, and Weapons and Armor (by Matthew Balent).

For the last book, the author details quite a few weapons for weight, length, symmetry (for throwing at 1-3), damage (1-4?), DX (or rather a quickness number), along with the type (6 types).

The armor section was well developed with historical examples which he broke down with resistance numbers (0-12) against Chop, Cut, Thrust, and Impact, plus effects against DX, plus the approximate weight of it.

He wrote up on some period styles with values for those armor types. He had over 40 types and 26 cultural styles.

Basically some armors were good against slashing but not as well against blunt. Some weren't as good against spears and arrows/quarrels as they were against slashing and pounding.

Having noted all that, one could design some armors to be half way - stops 3 hits for blunt and blades, but stops only 2 for piercing.

03-06-2022, 12:38 PM	#11
Shostak Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: New England	Re: Studded Leather Armor With TFT's coarse-grained resolution, would Brigantine's protection and encumbrance make it "Leather Armor" or "Chainmail"? I'm guessing the latter. __________________ * * * * Anthony Shostak myriangia.wordpress.com

03-06-2022, 01:51 PM	#12
Jeff Lord Join Date: Jul 2018	Re: Studded Leather Armor If you meant 'brigandine,' I'd concur. A 'brigantine' is a two-masted sailing vessel. ;)

03-06-2022, 03:41 PM	#15
DanHoward Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia	Re: Studded Leather Armor The existence of "faux brigandine" confuses the issue. Past writers assumed that it was a type of armour but it was just regular clothing decorated with studs to look like brigandine, which was highly fashionable at the time. Court attendees wanted the fashion of the armour without the burden of the plates. __________________ Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting.

03-06-2022, 04:22 PM	#18
TippetsTX Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: North Texas	Re: Studded Leather Armor So setting aside its dubious historicity, I don't object to studded leather's place in the defensive framework of other FRPG systems. The challenge with TFT, however, is that the current list of armors doesn't leave any room for in-between options like this. My solution was to expand the list and the range of 'hits stopped' (1 thru 9 instead of 6), but that probably won't appeal to everyone. You can also create new options by altering other aspects of each armor type such as the DX or MA penalties. We do this as well, but its tied to how we define 'fine' armor (fine = fitted in our game which generally translates to a lesser DX penalty). __________________ “No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos Last edited by TippetsTX; 03-06-2022 at 04:55 PM.

03-07-2022, 09:25 AM	#19
hcobb Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pacheco, California	Re: Studded Leather Armor Shouldn't a brigandine only protect the body, making aimed shots more attractive? __________________ -HJC

10-09-2023, 04:12 AM	#20
Drakenbow Join Date: Sep 2023	Re: Studded Leather Armor Back in the 80s, I picked up three thin booklets made for another game which focused on weapons mostly. Weapons and Castles, Weapons and Assassins, and Weapons and Armor (by Matthew Balent). For the last book, the author details quite a few weapons for weight, length, symmetry (for throwing at 1-3), damage (1-4?), DX (or rather a quickness number), along with the type (6 types). The armor section was well developed with historical examples which he broke down with resistance numbers (0-12) against Chop, Cut, Thrust, and Impact, plus effects against DX, plus the approximate weight of it. He wrote up on some period styles with values for those armor types. He had over 40 types and 26 cultural styles. Basically some armors were good against slashing but not as well against blunt. Some weren't as good against spears and arrows/quarrels as they were against slashing and pounding. Having noted all that, one could design some armors to be half way - stops 3 hits for blunt and blades, but stops only 2 for piercing.