06-06-2009, 10:22 PM | #21 |
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Location: Vermont
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
Quoted for Truth.
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06-06-2009, 10:23 PM | #22 | ||||||||
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
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The shield can be bashed with, but it can also be bashed. It can be kicked. It is by no means an impenetrable shield. Quote:
It's a mistake to think, though, that potentially deadly duels were simply a matter of fashion. The dueling tradition, worldwide, has tended to support the notion that it's better either to have a longer weapon, or to wield something in each hand. A buckler is a fair choice, but far from the only one. Quote:
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I'm not sure what the thrust of this argument is, since I have stated several times I have not been arguing the shield is inferior or that uncountable soldiers marched into battle with inappropriate equipment. My point was simply that the prominence of the shield varies according to the circumstances and that for much of the so-called Middle Ages and beyond it was not that prominent. In ancient warfare, particularly with the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans, the shield had a highly respected place in the martial arts. That esteem is far from universal throughout history. |
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06-06-2009, 10:31 PM | #23 |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vermont
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
I beg to differ. Musashi's great fame and reputation rests almost entirely on his success as a duellist, I've heard little about his success as a soldier.
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06-06-2009, 10:37 PM | #24 | |
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
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A key point in its favour is that while a stout shield may well block attacks from both the broadsword and rondel of your foe, but I can't exactly imagine it's easy for him to use the blades to parry your shield checks and bashes. Not to mention that few people in history have the necessary coordination and skill to attack with two weapons at the same time. The reason for carrying two weapons is usually* to attack with one of them and defend with the other. In that case, a dedicated defensive weapon like the shield is much more useful than just another blade or bludgeon. *Fiction and legend would have us believe otherwise, but in real life, it doesn't appear to happen all that much. Turns out that most people can't repeat the fancy tricks with two blades they learned in a dojo once the fight turns real.
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06-06-2009, 10:42 PM | #25 | |
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
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06-06-2009, 10:52 PM | #26 | |
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Location: Iceland*
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
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It can be trained, sure. But that doesn't give you two independent sources of offence, since while you have two hands, you don't have the ability to focus on many things at once. At most, the weapons can be used to make a joint attack where each hand basically does the same thing, so the attention isn't divided too badly. Most two weapon styles that I've seen performed are either pre-rehearsed art forms that would have limited battlefield utility or they actually alternate which weapon the user is focusing on. For example, boxing uses both hands to punch, but not at the same time.
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06-06-2009, 11:49 PM | #27 | |
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
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At least some of the discrepancy between shields and doors/walls, though, is explained by the shield's motion in combat. Not being fixed to anything solid, it deflects and gives way rather than absorbing all the energy of every blow.
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06-06-2009, 11:52 PM | #28 | |
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
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06-06-2009, 11:59 PM | #29 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
In that case, I suggest that instead of "hearing," you do a little reading. Not only was he a famed samurai duelist who fought other samurai, but he was an accomplished swordmaster and general with many students. He participated in a major military uprising, and ultimately died peacefully and was buried in his armor.
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06-07-2009, 12:01 AM | #30 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?
Indeed.
Which is why it's nice that a shield does something useful while being held passively. This is its great advantage over other secondary weapons and why I'd choose one over a knife or a mace any day.
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