02-08-2023, 01:35 AM | #11 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
A useful layout would be something like:
Combat Traits Defenses: Combat Reflexes; Doesn’t Breathe; High Pain Threshold; Immunity to Disease; Immunity to Poison; Indomitable; No Blood; Temperature Tolerance 5 (Cold); Temperature Tolerance 5 (Heat) Senses: Dark Vision Weaknesses: Unhealing (Total); Vulnerability (Fire x2). Noncombat Traits Personality: Bad Temper (12); Bloodlust (12); Hidebound; Intolerance (The living); Single- Minded Social: Bad Smell; Frightens Animals Other: Dependency (Rest in own tomb 1/3 of each day or lose 1 HP/hour); Doesn’t Eat or Drink. |
02-08-2023, 04:57 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
Another reason to have everything and their point cost is if some player wants that creature as an ally or because a character have some form of alternate form and want to change into a specific monster.
It may be simplified GURPS but it is GURPS non the less and many people buy the books for their GURPS games and having the detailed building DNA of the monster is useful. There is a lot going on and the GM of a dungeon fantasy game have a lot of power with all that information. If you just need a fast monster then not bothering to read the entirety of the text is fine and just take the appendix stats for a quick combat encounter. If you want something special you will take the time to read carefully and chose the right monster for the encounter anyway. |
02-08-2023, 06:20 AM | #13 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
Quote:
1.) It needs to be more obvious how it reacts to injury. The GURPS way of presenting Injury Tolerance is superior in this case: if it has Injury Tolerance (No Brain), then it clearly DOESN'T have No Vitals or Diffuse or Homogeneous, or they would be part of Injury Tolerance. A GM should be able to tell at a glance how much they'll have to adjust damage when someone e.g. stabs this monster in the eye for 6 impaling damage. (12 injury for a Demon of Old because it has No Brain but not No Eyes or Homogeneous/Diffuse.) 2.) I don't really feel like labeling Combat Reflexes as "Infernal Quickness" adds anything. Perhaps the labels on the groups are not needed. Quote:
Frankly if a player wanted a shapechange power I wouldn't base the cost on the cost of the form anyway, because who cares if the Troll form has Odious Racial Habit and Ugly, etc.? You're not going to stay in troll form for negotiations. Ditto skeletons and zombies getting point reductions for things like Automaton, Reprogrammable, and Social Stigma (Dead). I'm better off ignoring the point total and making a subjective judgment on how much they're worth as alternate forms (or allies, if I choose to import GURPS rules for allies and ally groups even though the positive feedback loops and exponential growth make them unbalancing). I'm quite happy not to have such issues in DFRPG. Last edited by sjmdw45; 02-08-2023 at 06:35 AM. |
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02-08-2023, 01:25 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Rafael, CA
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
Quote:
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02-08-2023, 03:59 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
I was thinking along similar lines. Separating out the combat-relevant traits from the rest would streamline things for me. A big trait list can be quite difficult to digest. (I regularly run battles only to notice, afterward, a key trait that I missed.)
Other than that, I tend to like the flavor text and the fact that minor traits are listed. I don't need to see the full behind-the-scenes build, but I can recreate most DFRPG monsters as characters in GCS based on the trait lists, and I do that fairly frequently for important foes. |
02-09-2023, 02:15 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
I was trying to work out a format for monsters that made them easier to GM and run in combat but I never got it to something I was satisfied with.
The best version of it is seen in the Spiders in a Wide Variety of Vonvenient Sizes document I posted a while back. Five years .... eesh. Note the stat blocks begin on the second page of the PDF since the first page is reserved for new advantages. |
02-10-2023, 04:45 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
I use the NPC cards for a long time when I played fantasy adventures...some time ago with GURPS 3e. Very convenient and easy to handle.
I made one for each monsters, I think something like that may be done. The Fantasy Trip is using something very similar too. |
02-10-2023, 11:22 PM | #18 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2022
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
Some assorted comments!
Mechanical Completeness I've seen a couple of "list everything" notes, but I haven't seen anyone say that "Shark" needs to have "No Legs". If we generally agree that we don't need No Legs, that means we're also in camp "we don't need everything", and the actual discussion is "what all is worth including". IE, we would be deciding that "No Legs" is doing more harm (makes the rest of the traits harder to scan) than good. Concise Monster Descriptions As for the variations of "briefly described monster descriptions means the monster is too simple or two-dimensional"; ie, a DFRPG mummy is this complex being that with motivations, variable emotions, and complex behaviors while the OSE mummy is a bag of hitpoints that attacks on sight, fights to the death, and has some disease/fear effects. I don't think this is fair! The OSE mummy doesn't specifically say that it fights to the death, has simple emotions, and is a bag of hitpoints, so why is that the default assumption? When left unspecified, the GM decides the characterization of the mummy, either making it up or pulling from other sources (fiction, random tables, other game mechanics like reaction rolls, etc). If the GM in a OSE game decides that the mummy is bland, that's on them! I think the tbone quote was really interesting: Quote:
Organization I've been splitting up traits into Senses, Defense, Offense, Mind, and Body. Here's what part of an Alfar Wizard looks like in my notes. For the folks who don't want to click, that looks like -Senses-: Absolute Direction, Dark Vision -Defense-: Combat Reflexes, Faerie Veil 8, Glamour, Improved Magic Resistance 4, Indomitable, Injury Reduction 2 (not iron or steel) -Offense-: Elf-Shot (Any), Energy Reserve 19, Magery 5, Weapon Master (Staff) -Mind- Bully (9), Callous, Dread (Running Water) 0 yd, Intolerance (Mortals), Outdoorsman 1 -Body-: Appearance (Very Beautiful), Dependency (Mana) (1 HP/min) Closing Thoughts There's this wonderfully written theory from Vincent Baker back in 2003 about mechanics: Quote:
If we are interpreting the mechanics fictionally instead of mechanically, as in we don't take "Bad Temper (12)" to mean the above, but instead to mean "hey GM, just wanted to let you know that draugs have a bit of temper", then I think that information should not be side-by-side with very important combat information, or you make both harder to read/understand. Last edited by beaushinkle; 02-11-2023 at 12:29 AM. |
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02-10-2023, 11:31 PM | #19 |
Join Date: Jan 2022
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
Another Example!
Here's a Baital from Yoon-Suin, which is effectively an OSE setting. Baital A hostile dead spirit, intelligent and manipulative, which seeks to inflict its own displeasure on humankind. It is able to inhabit and animate any corpse, but it can also affect the thoughts and emotions of the weak-willed – driving them to madness or suicide and causing miscarriages. It delights in ‘revealing’ itself as a demigod in order to dominate an unfortunate lunatic, but it might likewise be dominated by powerful magicians who seek to use its abilities for their own ends. In its true form it is recognisably the image of its former self, but it is able to appear as a winged skeleton; a dark, hooded figure; or a many-armed, dancing spirit. HD 3, AC 5, #ATT 1, DMG *, Move 120 (Fly 240), ML 7, Save As: M3, TT: L (S+T)
Often enslaved by a magician or engaged in the torment of an unfortunate individual. If encountered randomly will usually (1-4 on a d6) be inhabiting a corpse; this is noticeable on close inspection. On a roll of 5, it is enslaved by a powerful magician and engaged in the performance of some task. Alternatively (on a roll of 6), it may manifest itself as a demigod, demon or spirit plaguing a lunatic. |
02-11-2023, 12:47 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Jun 2022
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Re: Request: Better Monster Signal:Noise or Information Design
Quote:
Sharks need the trait No Legs. This is because there is a precedent and a method to how NPCs are designed and listed in GURPS products*, listing Sharks with "No Legs" stays true to that form and method. * To whit: "You get what you pay for", if a Shark is taken as an 'animal form' for a shapeshifting PC, then "No Legs" informs how many points the form costs, thus this information is needed. Now granted we're in DFRPG land where all of that is hidden behind the curtain, but that is not how it works out in the greater GURPS field, and as such, NPC stats in DFRPG are informed by "how it would be done in a regular GURPS book". |
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