[Magic] Brewing Potions

[scc]

OK, one of the problems I've got with Magic is that for potions it only offers Alchemy, which turns Alchemy into canned Magic and not it's own thing, and with this spell I hope I've fixed that:

Brew Potion Very Hard
Brew a magical potion that contains a spell from another college that can effect only a single living target. While healing or enhancement most commonly used, baneful effects such as Beast-Rouser are not unheard of, if uncommon because their usefulness is limited. Mind Control spells can actually be brewed, but the targets behavior will be set up at the time of viewing or they will become suspectable to those around them, not the brewer. Factors such as increased duration or higher level are made when the potion is brewed and can't be changed later. All skill rolls are made when the potion is brewed and if needed later, such as for spells that have resistance, recorded. As the energy for a potion is contained in the potion they work in areas that are mana barren but magic still works, so one would work in the Great Desert of Yrth, but not on Homeline.

Base Cost: Thrice the cost to cast the spell normally once all modifiers are accounted for, such as duration and high skill.
Time to Cast: one hour per 10 energy expended. Must the brewed as a single, uninterrupted task, no sleeping.
Prerequisites: Crate Water, one Food spell, and three different spells from different colleges. The GM may set further limitations, such as a minimum level in Alchemy or rare, exotic, or simply expensive ingredients, for any or all potions.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by scc

OK, one of the problems I've got with Magic is that for potions it only offers Alchemy, which turns Alchemy into canned Magic and not it's own thing, and with this spell I hope I've fixed that:

Brew Potion Very Hard
Brew a magical potion that contains a spell from another college that can effect only a single living target. While healing or enhancement most commonly used, baneful effects such as Beast-Rouser are not unheard of, if uncommon because their usefulness is limited. Mind Control spells can actually be brewed, but the targets behavior will be set up at the time of viewing or they will become suspectable to those around them, not the brewer. Factors such as increased duration or higher level are made when the potion is brewed and can't be changed later. All skill rolls are made when the potion is brewed and if needed later, such as for spells that have resistance, recorded. As the energy for a potion is contained in the potion they work in areas that are mana barren but magic still works, so one would work in the Great Desert of Yrth, but not on Homeline.

I don't think I get what you're trying to accomplish. You describe alchemy as "canned magic and not it's [sic] own thing," which isn't so evident to me; the list of potions does not correspond 100% to the list of spells. But stipulating that, what you provide is a spell (or technically, perhaps, an enchantment) that produces a potion for any spell, one that provides the same effects as the spell. So you don't even have a separate list of potions; you have "turn this spell into a potion." I don't get how that isn't even more "canned magic" than the existing alchemy rules are. It seems like it's almost the exact opposite of what you say you're looking for.

So maybe I'm not understanding what your goal is?

[Phantasm]

Seems to me is that the goal is to replicate the Brew Potion feat from That Other Game, which allows healing and buffing spells to be brewed into potions rather than cast, use of the Craft (Alchemy) skill optional.

Basically, it's another way of producing the "canned magic" more in keeping with That Other Game's mechanics and metaphysics than GURPS's.

Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

[evileeyore]

My recommendation to scc:

Make your spell work more like the Enchantment rules and make it an Enchantment spell rather than a much better, far more versatile and powerful Delay or Hang spell. Because that's what you've made...


Also you've completely removed grenade type potions from play if you follow your current set-up (which may be a bonus to you).

[RyanW]

If your skill is good enough to lower cost to maintain to zero, what keeps you from brewing a potion with infinite duration?

[Dammann]

Cumulative penalties to casting? If you only have a single potion, no biggie, but if your party is walking around with 5 potions apiece, the penalties might become a burden until they use the potions. Which I guess could also be a feature rather than a bug? I dunno, it gives incentives to avoid miserly potion hoarding, if that is a thing.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

My recommendation to scc:

Make your spell work more like the Enchantment rules and make it an Enchantment spell rather than a much better, far more versatile and powerful Delay or Hang spell. Because that's what you've made...

I am unable to conceive of a way this would work ina Gurps Magic framework except as an Enchantment spell and it would basically be a version of a Spellstone.

Right now it's so much cheaper than a Spellstone that it's basically broken.

It's not as portable or durable as a Spellstone so maybe it should get a discount for that.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I am unable to conceive of a way this would work ina Gurps Magic framework except as an Enchantment spell and it would basically be a version of a Spellstone.

Yup. My thought exactly.

Right now it's so much cheaper than a Spellstone that it's basically broken.

It's also possibly cheaper than Hang Spell, in that it gets cost reduction for High Skill.

It's not as portable or durable as a Spellstone so maybe it should get a discount for that.

Eminently fair. Drop the $40xP portion of Spell Stone's cost?

[scc]

Lots of replies, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't think I get what you're trying to accomplish. You describe alchemy as "canned magic and not it's [sic] own thing," which isn't so evident to me; the list of potions does not correspond 100% to the list of spells. But stipulating that, what you provide is a spell (or technically, perhaps, an enchantment) that produces a potion for any spell, one that provides the same effects as the spell. So you don't even have a separate list of potions; you have "turn this spell into a potion." I don't get how that isn't even more "canned magic" than the existing alchemy rules are. It seems like it's almost the exact opposite of what you say you're looking for.

So maybe I'm not understanding what your goal is?

Your quite correct that most of the Elixirs as things stand do not mention spells, but for a great many of them you have to ask the question: How does it work? And the only possible answer is magic. So my goal is to make a spell, or series of spells, so that if/when I turn Alchemy into it's own thing it doesn't disrupt the supply of potions.

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Seems to me is that the goal is to replicate the Brew Potion feat from That Other Game, which allows healing and buffing spells to be brewed into potions rather than cast, use of the Craft (Alchemy) skill optional.

Basically, it's another way of producing the "canned magic" more in keeping with That Other Game's mechanics and metaphysics than GURPS's.

Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

D&D (3.5) was one thing I was think of when I wrote this, but I delibratly shied away from duplicating it exactly. As for being good or bad, for DF players I'd say good.

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Make your spell work more like the Enchantment rules and make it an Enchantment spell rather than a much better, far more versatile and powerful Delay or Hang spell. Because that's what you've made...

I did actually intend for this to be an Enchantment spell, just sort of forgot to include that. Do you think I should change it to use the Enchantment casting times?

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Also you've completely removed grenade type potions from play if you follow your current set-up (which may be a bonus to you).

I did consider allowing them, but it felt too Minecrafty, changing this would be simple but, add Area spells to the list of allowed types.

Originally Posted by RyanW

If your skill is good enough to lower cost to maintain to zero, what keeps you from brewing a potion with infinite duration?

Originally Posted by Dammann

Cumulative penalties to casting? If you only have a single potion, no biggie, but if your party is walking around with 5 potions apiece, the penalties might become a burden until they use the potions. Which I guess could also be a feature rather than a bug? I dunno, it gives incentives to avoid miserly potion hoarding, if that is a thing.

This is why I post stuff like this to the forums, to have holes pointed out. But as the roll for the potion is made at the time brewing is finished, not when you drink it, as the rules stand that is possible with no side effects. Of course a nasty GM can easilyb place limits on the skill of NPC brewers, or simply state that a potion that lasts forever takes forever to brew...

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I am unable to conceive of a way this would work ina Gurps Magic framework except as an Enchantment spell and it would basically be a version of a Spellstone.

Right now it's so much cheaper than a Spellstone that it's basically broken.

It's not as portable or durable as a Spellstone so maybe it should get a discount for that.

I intended it to be more limited then seems to have come across. For example your limited to the amount of energy a single brewer can invest, before he falls asleep.

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Yup. My thought exactly.


It's also possibly cheaper than Hang Spell, in that it gets cost reduction for High Skill.


Eminently fair. Drop the $40xP portion of Spell Stone's cost?

I'd say dropping the P-Squared part of Spellstones cost would be required to balance it normally, otherwise just use the stone for a Powerstone and use it to power a regular item.

You guys have given me a lot to think about on this matter, so I'll sleep on it and try and preopare a better version for posting in the morning

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by scc

I did actually intend for this to be an Enchantment spell, just sort of forgot to include that. Do you think I should change it to use the Enchantment casting times?

Depends on what you are going for.

Do you want to replace the current Alchemy system completely? Then go for using more Enchantment style rules, allow for other 'Alchemist' to be working in shifts casting the 'potion' or even for Apprentices to maintain the working (if not being able to add to it) while the Potion master sleeps. This will allow for the mega-potions to be brewable (without needing whacky munchkin hijinx), then yes.

If you want this to be something a PC does for a few days as adventure prep, replacing the Hang Spell, then no.

I intended it to be more limited then seems to have come across. For example your limited to the amount of energy a single brewer can invest, before he falls asleep.

Ahhh, so it's "Spend 10 FP per hour worked", not "Spend X hours working then Spend Xx10 FP".

Sleep can be gotten around. With apprentices (or other mages paid to do this) casting Lend Energy* the Potion Brewer can go for days before passing out.

* With a combination of Lend Energy and Awaken spells being cast on him ... the Brewer never actually needs to sleep. Ever.

This also means the Potion Brewers Guild is probably run by Liches. Which is kinda cool.