01-13-2023, 01:37 AM | #31 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2022
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
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And no one else has it as a required skill, so better hope you have either a Knight or Holy Warrior if you're deciding that Leadership is the only way to convince NPCs to do what the PC's want... And if you check through the other Proffesions, no one (except Bards) really get any social skills above a 12 to start, which means they are meant to be rather terrible at social encounters, which aren't meant to be common in DFRPG. Which is why when I'm not running "generic" DFRPG I give out more points to be used for buying more social skills, or simply making the few they get, slightly better. That was the entire thrust of the first three sentences I wrote. Quote:
I allow anyone to buy any of the social skills at chargen (not just with their 5 Quirk points, but like I said, I give out more than 250 points for a bit more customization, or I use something more akin to Delvers to Grow instead of porffession templates), so to make Born War Leader have some more utility (it's a pretty subpar advantage, few Players want it or buy more of it) I allow it to treat Leadership like Diplomacy. So if a PC has both, then they can never make things worse by making a Leadership Reaction Roll. Also I add the Soldier skill to my games and have BWL add to it as well. I also use Tactics at the start of every fight to give advantages to the side that wins the Tactics roll* and I use Strategy to assist with planning long journey's or if the PCs actually try to plan out a mission before jumping into it. * I've toyed with different things like adding to one side's Initiative, giving out bonus uses of Luck or Serendipity, etc. Otherwise a lot of these skills end up playing third fiddle and never get increased. |
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01-13-2023, 04:44 PM | #32 | |||||||
Join Date: Jul 2021
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
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OK, sounds good. |
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01-13-2023, 05:11 PM | #33 | ||||
Join Date: Jul 2021
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
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[quote]And if you check through the other Proffesions, no one (except Bards) really get any social skills above a 12 to start, which means they are meant to be rather terrible at social encounters, which aren't meant to be common in DFRPG. Yes, to START. Also it is good that Bard actually has SOMETHING to be good at. Quote:
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Last edited by restlessgriffin; 01-16-2023 at 01:59 AM. |
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01-13-2023, 06:24 PM | #34 |
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
Diplomacy is different from other influence rolls (Exploits pg 10) in that "Exception: If you used Diplomacy, the GM will also make a regular reaction roll and use the better of the two reactions."
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01-15-2023, 01:40 AM | #35 | |||||
Join Date: Jun 2022
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
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It's the 'ye olde Thief' problem, the problem being Thief as a profession template is terrible and superfluous. So you either need to build your adventures around making the Thief uniquely useful* (mildly difficult and annoying) or accept that no one will want to play a Thief* (which is what I've done, and then toss int he stuff I normally would and let the PCs suffer for not having a Thief). * The parallel here being either you need to make non-combat skills more broadly useful (more applications and more opportunities to use them) or accept that the PCs will prefer minor inconveniences for not having them as they focus more solely on the core delving skills for their professions. Quote:
The "succeed or die" skills. They will absolutely preference those skills as failing those skills means death, where failing a Social Skill rarely does. So, as I've found, if you want them to respect Social Skills the stakes need to be a bit higher... which means if they're failing them all the time (12s really do suck), Players will feel as though they're being punished for making Characters by the book. It's something to think about and why I give out slightly more points so PCs can get to 13-14s in a few social and other Background skills. Because while those skills are rarely "succeed or die" skills, they come close. Quote:
Bards completely wreck normal Social party dynamics. Okay, at least that's been my experiences with Players making Very Handsome, very Charismatic Bards. If they go the high Bard Song, Luck, or Wealth route, your experience will likely differ. And if a Player tries to get you to allow them to play a Bard of the Nymph race from DF 3 The Next Level, just say no. Quote:
Anyway, in this case if the PC has both Leadership and Born War Leader I treat Leadership the way Diplomacy works This makes the Knight and Holy Warrior able to give commands as well as the Wizard... (Leadership is an IQ skill, Wizards tend to easily have very good Social Skills just by putting a point or two into those skills and thus are better than other templates that have to put in twice or more points to be as good. Wizards tend to be the biggest problems in my games with the "stepping on other's roles", both with Social skills and helping make Thief completely unnecessary.) |
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01-15-2023, 08:33 AM | #36 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
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"Sons of Mother Church, smite now the orcish hordes! For your wives and children's sake, stand fast, and may the One Above All guide your aim!" Last edited by sjmdw45; 01-15-2023 at 08:49 AM. |
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01-16-2023, 09:16 PM | #37 | |
Join Date: Jul 2021
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
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01-17-2023, 08:14 AM | #38 | |
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
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Trap-disarming (DX-based) and trap-creating (IQ-based) tend to be less important (e.g. avoid the trap or have a monkey or a wizard with Apportation set it off), but druids/bards/clerics/wizards are all good at trap creation anyway due to high IQ. Lockpicking and trap disarming can go on any high-DX character (Swashbucklers excel at important lockpicking due to Luck). Sneaking past sentries: druids are best (Create Animal + Rider Within), bards are good (Stealth + Hush spell, or just Loyalty), clerics are not good. (Wizards with Wizard Eye or illusions with Initiative are even better than druids unless it's necessary to physically interact, e.g. open doors.) Backstabbing enemies is just a subset of killing enemies, which almost anyone can do. E.g. an Elven Bard with Resist Sound on friendlies throws a Concussion and then uses Song of Humiliation to stun whoever made their HT-3 roll; or a druid's conjured wolves rip an enemy to shreds with All Out Attack (double); or a cleric invests enough in Innate Attack to reliably hit enemies in the face/skull with 2d6 Sun Bolt for 1 FP. And it's not like they can't do these things from a backstab--the elven bard in particular can succeed on a backstab roll most of the time, but maybe won't want to because backstabbing puts you in the middle of the enemies and leaves you vulnerable to being surrounded. But backstabbing isn't even restricted to thieves. Anyway, in the context of this thread, Leadership and clerics is a good fit. (Ditto Tactics.) |
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01-17-2023, 03:52 PM | #39 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2022
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
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Or just Barbarian it all (even sneaking, it's an average skill based on DX which Barbarian usually have at least 13 in). Whoa! We call them Barbarians now sir. Or easily tricked Hireling... Quote:
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01-17-2023, 10:05 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Re: Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks
I've never been able to play as a PC in this system but I've always wanted to run a more social/leadership Knight. Lots of BWL talent, bit of appearance.
Two extra levels of Born War Leader and Attractive gives a total +6 on the initial roll to determine Loyalty for any fighter type, assuming you win the Leadership check for the extra +1. The IQ roll to find hirelings will be tough but other party members can lend complimentary rolls to help you, and you can roll Carousing or something to give yourself a bit of a buff also. For combat, I think its best to leave the GM controlling but let the player decide how to train their hirelings to act. Then, if you want them to act outside their programming so to speak, you take a Do Nothing manoeuvre and make a Leadership check to give new orders. 62 pointers I'd expect to be treated like fodder, no complex turns; 125 can maybe throw something in now and then. You could allow players to control hirelings/allies and tax them CP if they abuse that control (poor roleplaying), or step in if they're doing something out of character. I've never done it that way, but I've also never had a player wanting hordes of hired help. They way I saw it recommended that seemed interesting was player B controls Player A's minions and vice versa. Last edited by Expy; 01-18-2023 at 07:04 AM. |
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