06-23-2016, 10:40 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
Well, specifically, archers with Heroic Archer can fire every turn, which is why this is a good investment for them. I wouldn't just change the rules to let archers fire every turn for no point cost or penalty! That would overvalue bows compared to other weapons.
That said, I use the Instant Shot technique instead of the more complex rules for Heroic Archer, and I'll let even non-cinematic archers use it and buy it off, assuming they meet the harsh prerequisites. After all, the 9 points it costs to max out is about half what Heroic Archer costs, and gives about half of that advantage's benefits. Quote:
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06-23-2016, 11:11 AM | #12 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Binghamton, NY, USA. Near the river Styx in the 5th Circle.
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
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Kromm also used to have some variant missile spells on his website that allowed mages to fire multiple projectiles in a single casting. So instead firing 1 fireball in a one second casting you could fire up to 12d divided between multiple missiles (so 2x6d, or 3x4d, etc). I'm not sure I'd allow that one, but it's an idea. As for Archers, as others have said with Heroic Archer, Fast-Draw, and a few archery perks an Archer can be very deadly (throw Strongbow into the mix, in addition to what's already been mentioned). If you allow Dual Weapon Attack (Bow) they can even get off two arrows per turn on the same or adjacent targets. That's plenty deadly enough.
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Eric B. Smith GURPS Data File Coordinator GURPSLand I shall pull the pin from this healing grenade and... Kaboom-baya. Last edited by ericbsmith; 06-23-2016 at 11:16 AM. |
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06-23-2016, 11:40 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
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But in any case, I think someone who demands that a wizard get to blast stuff every turn is... so missing the point of a wizard, in my opinion. I played a wizard, and I certainly do remember spending a few turns building up an ice dagger only to miss, while in the same amount of time, the swashbuckler was carving through a dozen baddies. But I also remember taking time to summon a major demon who powered through the dungeon with, flash-freezing the floor so utterly change the circumstances of battle, and outwitting a satyr and his mind control with my own mind magic. A wizard is not an artillery platform, he's a game-changer. He's that in D&D too, by the way: In 4e, he was classed a "controller," not a "striker," and that seems right to me. A wizard isn't blasting stuff over and over with fireballs, he's casting sleep spells, or summons, or some other crazy, vast trick that rewrites the battlefield in favor of his allies. That's even more true in DF, in my experience.
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06-23-2016, 12:03 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Binghamton, NY, USA. Near the river Styx in the 5th Circle.
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
Well, yes and no. I do agree that a Mage can be so much more useful and versatile, if he's built and played that way. But some people just want an artillery cannon mage, and the only thing wrong with that is that GURPS doesn't really allow you to power-up in that direction very well the same way that other "classes" can.
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Eric B. Smith GURPS Data File Coordinator GURPSLand I shall pull the pin from this healing grenade and... Kaboom-baya. |
06-23-2016, 12:36 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
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But in any case, maybe I'm wrong. It seems that the problem isn't that GURPS forces mages to be slow and spend fatigue, but that the standard magic system does. GURPS actually has quite a few other magic systems, like Sorcery, RPM, and an entire catalog of options in Thaumatology. If you wanted to have an entirely different sort of wizard, one that could be much faster on the draw, it would seem to me that one of those would be the first place I looked (Sorcery, especially). The default magic system is built around mages taking time. It balances mage utility on cost and casting time. To have mages who throw fireballs as quickly as warriors attack with their sword means you need to rebalance the whole system, and you're really playing with something closer to powers than the classic GURPS-concept of a spell. Sorcery fits that bill pretty nicely, as would generic "Spells as powers," or perhaps even Psi (which is fully supported in GURPS, albeit with themes a player who wants a wizard might find off-putting).
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06-23-2016, 12:43 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
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06-23-2016, 12:44 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
RPM works beautifully for the 'chuck spells every round' mage
Sorcery does also, but does strongly encourage a more Johnny One Spell approach to combat nuking RPM gives a VERY old DnD feel, with charms replacing spell slots, but blaze away as your charms hold out |
06-23-2016, 12:50 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
My experience with blast every round mages is that they wind up being basically supers characters, and are probably best built using Powers. That's not inherently bad, plenty of magicians in comics and movies work that way, but it does result in a different type of feel.
Balancing ranged vs melee is a really tricky problem, though; if you want both melee and ranged fighters in the same system, you need to pretty carefully tune the numbers so the melee fighter is durable enough to reach melee range (and has an advantage once in melee range), but is not so powerful as to make ranged weapons useless. |
06-23-2016, 02:09 PM | #19 |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
I'm pretty adamant about Sorcerers not getting to many FPs (or even Energy Reserve) and didn't allow Alternative Rituals. But even then I could see a problem with someone who's really focusing on deadly long range attacks (1FP per 3d+ fireball can last a long time).
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06-23-2016, 04:07 PM | #20 | ||||
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)
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Tags |
action, archer, dungeon fantasy, mage, turn |
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