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Old 06-22-2016, 06:48 PM   #1
LateCustomer
 
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Default Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

Has anyone tried running or playing in a (basically) dungeon fantasy game where archers are allowed to shoot an arrow and casters could cast combat spells every turn by default? If so, what were the results? Was it fun? Overpowering? I'm just looking for general experiences and thoughts on the matter.

Thanks.
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:57 PM   #2
evileeyore
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Default Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

In DF Archers can fire every turn. And Wizards are every other turn so that's not too bad...




But I allow for PCs in my game to trade out attacks for Concentration. It worked fine.
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
In DF Archers can fire every turn. And Wizards are every other turn so that's not too bad...




But I allow for PCs in my game to trade out attacks for Concentration. It worked fine.
Thanks, man.
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

I have GMd quite a bit for an archer who has heroic archer, a high fast-draw, and a perk which lets her skip fast-draw rolls under normal circumstances. The combination means that she's shooting every round. It's pretty brutal, but not unbalanced for the point expense.

For wizards, I haven't tried getting rid of the missile-spell delay. The damage-per-round is already pretty similar to the archer. I find that it makes my magi think more creatively. They can still cast a spell every round, just not a missile spell.

If you want to encourage this more, use the speed/range table for range penalties on regular spells. That opens up options a lot.
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:40 PM   #5
simply Nathan
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Default Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

My GM just let me fire off my fireballs on the turn cast if I didn't aim, charge them up, or take the FP discount. Worked out fine since I'd usually want to do those things anyway, aside from the energy discount (skill 12/13 spells and skill 10 Innate Attack hurts if you don't take your time and pace yourself).
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Old 06-23-2016, 07:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

My group had problems with this due to perceived unfairness. Archers and mages want to have all the benefits of melee fighters with none of the hazards. If an archer or mage wants to have as many attacks as a melee fighter and do the same damage as a melee fighter then they should get up close and take the same risks as a melee fighter.
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Old 06-23-2016, 07:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

The Spellslinger advantage* allows you to make your attack on the same turn you finish casting, but both rolls are at -6 like a Rapid Strike. An Extra Option perk to allow only that would probably be fine (since the option is balanced by the penalties).


* At the moment I can only find a write-up of Spellslinger for RPM in Pyramid #3/66. Is there one for regular magic too?
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Old 06-23-2016, 07:25 AM   #8
evileeyore
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Default Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
My group had problems with this due to perceived unfairness. Archers and mages want to have all the benefits of melee fighters with none of the hazards. If an archer or mage wants to have as many attacks as a melee fighter and do the same damage as a melee fighter then they should get up close and take the same risks as a melee fighter.
Even under RAW Archers and Mages can have as many attacks as a melee fighter. It's just a lot more expensive, often does less damage, and occasionally requires Advantages that are not be available in straight DF*.



* Compartmentalized Mind for the Caster templates.
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Old 06-23-2016, 07:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
In DF Archers can fire every turn.
Well not exactly. I think LateCustomer was more thinking of a rules change.

In DF Archers can - with the right advantages and skills, and a high skill, at a penalty - fire every turn.


---

As for wizards you can deal direct damage each turn. Just get Jet-spells. But then you have to get in close...which is only fair.
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Old 06-23-2016, 08:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF)

In DF, Archers are pretty much certain to have those advantages and skills. It's what they do. It's like pointing out that Knights have Combat Reflexes and High Pain Threshold and high weapon skills.

The real question for the (apparently) proposed houserule is the effect it has on all the casual archers. Not the specialists in that niche, but the Knights or Swashbucklers or mages that just carry a bow because there's always some point where a ranged weapon comes in handy. Do you want to make them as effective as that highly skilled Heroic Archer for free? If so, do you add even more benefits to Heroic Archer to keep it worth the CP cost, or just drop it (and the other skills like Fast-Draw that lead to firing each round)?

Once ranged weapon expertise becomes easy and popular, what do you do about the melee niches and their lessened effectiveness and impact in game? Buff them, like the Heroic Archer?

If you're one of the rules-create-the-world simulationists, then what do the mass armies now have to look like? Bows are easy to master and have an even higher rate of fire, so Agincourt will be the routine, expected, result, not a surprising one-off. But if knights aren't useful in combat, that's going to have ripple effects all the way into your pseudo-medieval society. But maybe that's okay if it's a pure dungeon crawling game where the "town" barely has a name and the world outside is irrelevant.
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