Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2019, 08:47 AM   #1
CarrionPeacock
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

Browsing some gambesons available for sale I noticed they're very light, none weighting more than 10 lbs, and after googling some more I found no evidence that gambesons and padded jacks are as heavy as shown on Low-Tech (lightest version with only 1 dr weights 9 lbs, dr 2 jumps to 18 lbs).
Why are textile armor in GURPS so heavy? Is it to balance their low cost?
CarrionPeacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 09:34 AM   #2
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrionPeacock View Post
Browsing some gambesons available for sale I noticed they're very light, none weighting more than 10 lbs, and after googling some more I found no evidence that gambesons and padded jacks are as heavy as shown on Low-Tech (lightest version with only 1 dr weights 9 lbs, dr 2 jumps to 18 lbs).
Why are textile armor in GURPS so heavy? Is it to balance their low cost?
Pretty much everything made in bulk today would count as Ordinary Clothing or Padded Cloth not "layered cloth" in GURPS Low Tech. Fabric armour meant as armour had 12-30 layers of strong linen, or an inch of cotton wool packed as densely as wood. Garments like that, scaled up to cover what GURPS calls the Torso, can easily weigh 10 pounds.

Its like how a leather jacket from a department store is DR 0 and 1-3 lbs, not any of the kinds of leather armour in a game book.

Edit: The best definitions of damage and DR in GURPS are for steel plates vs. bullets, and have trouble representing things which provide a bit of protection against muscle-powered attacks, so GURPS Low Tech has optional rules ... but its not unreasonable for most of the padded jackets for sale today to give DR 0 to DR 1* (cutting and crushing only)/0. They are lightly built from cheap materials to look good and take the sting out of blunt swords.
__________________
"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper

This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature

Last edited by Polydamas; 03-25-2019 at 10:01 AM.
Polydamas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 11:26 AM   #3
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrionPeacock View Post
Why are textile armor in GURPS so heavy? Is it to balance their low cost?
It's because of the amount of textile needed for DR 1 against impaling. There's rules in LT for heavy clothing that is DR 1 vs cutting only, and that weighs less.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 11:45 AM   #4
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

Also ... I think there was tension between having rules for padded armour 6 mm, 12 mm, 18 mm, and 25 mm thick, and between making its DR-to-weight ratio appropriate in comparison to metal armour. As is, I would treat Padded Cloth and Light Layered Cloth as the main options, because 30 layers of linen protecting just the Torso weigh about 3600 g (8 lbs) and an extant mid-thigh-length, long-sleeved, inch-thick padded armour would weigh 10-12 lbs if it were adult sized.

Dan Howard has said that it would help for representing muscle-powered combat if a point of DR represented about half as much resistance as it does now. As it is, there are optional rules in Low Tech to describe how someone in a heavy winter jacket, flannel shirt and longjohns can get away with things in a knife fight that someone in Bermuda shorts and a Hawaian shirt can't risk.
__________________
"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper

This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature
Polydamas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 12:47 PM   #5
CarrionPeacock
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

So those gambesons being sold as "padded jacket class" are all just the inner padding gurps includes in the armor weights or at best padded cloth (dr 1*)? That's a bummer...
Thanks for dispeling my misunderstanding.
CarrionPeacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 04:14 PM   #6
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrionPeacock View Post
So those gambesons being sold as "padded jacket class" are all just the inner padding gurps includes in the armor weights or at best padded cloth (dr 1*)? That's a bummer...
Yep. Textile armour weighs more than an equivalent item made from metal. Leather is even worse. A buff coat weighs around 20 lbs and barely rates DR 2.

Here is an example of proper textile armour. It is about an inch thick and is as rigid as a board.
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O8...rmour-unknown/

Loadouts: Low-Tech Armor would be a good book to read. It dispels a lot of historical armour myths.
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/l.../lowtecharmor/

Keep in mind that clothing can be very heavy. A lot of older-styled wedding dresses can weigh 30 lbs or more.
__________________
Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting.

Last edited by DanHoward; 03-25-2019 at 04:56 PM.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 05:06 PM   #7
Kax
 
Kax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: God's Own Country
Default Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

And then there's dwarves making padded fabric quilt armour out of rock wool and woven basalt fibre.... :)
__________________
Paul May | MIB 1138 (on hiatus)
Kax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 06:09 PM   #8
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

Rock fabric would probably be similar to the real world version using serpentine or asbestos fibers.
Dwarves are naturally immune to mineral induced cancer, right?
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 06:17 PM   #9
Kax
 
Kax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: God's Own Country
Default Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Rock fabric would probably be similar to the real world version using serpentine or asbestos fibers.
Dwarves are naturally immune to mineral induced cancer, right?

Woven basalt fabric is a real thing, and is now used instead of asbestos in most brake pads and other places.

And is used because it won't give you cancer or lung diseases.
__________________
Paul May | MIB 1138 (on hiatus)
Kax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 06:40 PM   #10
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Rock fabric would probably be similar to the real world version using serpentine or asbestos fibers.
Dwarves are naturally immune to mineral induced cancer, right?
Natural miners should have a bunch of small resistances, and dust is certainly one of them.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
low-tech

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.