05-04-2021, 08:55 PM | #171 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
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If skill in all weapons was near equal it might be because skill with all was minimal.
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Fred Brackin |
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05-05-2021, 02:05 AM | #172 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
I feel that lumping all the melee weapons into a few skills or sub-skills (no a bad idea in itself) and then calling that skill 'hard' or 'very hard', presumably because it's so broad, is the wrong path.
Using melee weapons is not hard at all, and in fact they probably should have a much more generous default from DX than they do. Kids use them on each other and on anything else in reach all the time. What makes them difficult to hurt people with is that the would-be victim is trying not to get hit. Also, if the point is to reduce the number of skills, and allow characters to more readily use a wide range of weapons, charging an extra 4 or 8 points (for the skilled users) to get back to where they'd otherwise be seems unfair. It also means skill 11-12 (normal professional level) is very expensive for normal people, and your basic armed guard/soldier wasn't a particularly exceptional individual.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
05-05-2021, 09:22 AM | #173 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
I've split off the alternate skill list/system into its own thread, here, where I've posted a revised version of it.
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GURPS Overhaul |
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05-05-2021, 03:02 PM | #174 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
Does seem like a good point that making people pay more for being weapons-proficient at all is not a desirable effect.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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05-05-2021, 07:53 PM | #175 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature |
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05-05-2021, 10:06 PM | #176 | |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
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A-raising the governing attribute instead B-using a skill at default from a sky-high skill (if such a default is available) C-raising a skill from another skill default (if such a default is available) D-talent (if available) E-Wildcard skills Of those, applied to weapon skills cross-training : A can generate more problem than it solve, and isn't cheap B is the most efficient point-wise (when possible - there are few suitable defaults under current rules) but isn't very realistic. Even if made possible with more and better defaults, I do not believe that someone who almost never held a mace or a spear should be nearly as good with those than with the sword that he trained for year with. C is where the current weapons rules appear to fail (as pointed out by Ulzgoroth, it is not efficient point-wise), Many peoples are suggesting fewer skills and easier cross-default to correct B and C. However, and in my opinion, it suffer from the same problem than B, and I also dislike reducing the skill list. I like variety in the skills list and in character builds, not a boring and uniform short list with mechanical names (balanced 1H, balanced 2H, ... that is a videogame statistical approach, not a roleplaying game) D is how I would solve it instead Allow weapon skills in Talent, and rule that you can easily acquire the first cp in a skill with basic training and you can keep skill/characters diversity and cheaper multi-weapon polyvalence. E is either for amazing expert or for simplified games with short skill lists, not for general use imho. Last edited by Celjabba; 05-06-2021 at 05:33 AM. Reason: Edit : clarified point B and C |
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05-06-2021, 03:26 AM | #177 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
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Raising from default fails to be useful for reasons that have nothing to do with weapons - it's simply not a good use of points, normally. Raising one skill one point from default costs as much as raising the skill it defaults from, and raising the defaulted skill as a side effect. At best, it's worth paying the bare minimum to make the defaulted skill count as a learned skill.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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05-06-2021, 05:32 AM | #178 | |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
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I switched B and C when writing the post and some parts fell off. I have updated my post to clarify my meaning |
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05-06-2021, 08:30 AM | #179 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
Indeed. While GURPS downplays some of this (as I understand it, GURPS armor is much less protective against hand weapons than real armor was, and the difference between sword performance and mace performance against it is much more narrow than it should be), you can still see it in play. Compared to swords, axe/mace weapons have higher damage but are less flexible (no thr imp) and poorer at defense (Parry 0U), spears lack a swing attack (unless using Weapon Adaptation to use them equally as spears and staffs) but have better Reach and higher thr imp damage, polearms are a bit unwieldy (Parry 0U, sometimes become Unready after each attack) but have better Reach and far better damage, and knives are poor weapons outside of close combat but are better than fighting unarmed (and actually usable) if you are stuck at Reach C. Even more esoteric weapons get some love - flails are unwieldy but harder to defend against, while kusari share these qualities and can also entangle a foe or his weapon.
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GURPS Overhaul Last edited by Varyon; 05-06-2021 at 08:40 AM. |
05-06-2021, 08:46 AM | #180 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Are knightly characters ineffective?
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Generally Gurps makes attacking most specific hit locations harder than reality because they tend to be fight winners. so purely gamist reasons. <shrug>
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Fred Brackin |
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character design, knight |
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