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Old 04-03-2021, 10:51 AM   #1
Cdr Vimes
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Default Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

Hello all, returning to the forums after several years away. Currently home brewing some Car Wars into a more detailed roleplaying system, for some Mad Max style play. However using the design rules as written as they work.

However I don't think I ever noticed before how the top speed calculations work. If I am doing it correctly an Oversized vehicle, if it has an engine that can just pull its max load, will always have a top speed of 100mph and if running empty the speeds can be well in excess of that. It seems wrong when most cars work out far less.

I'm not sue whether to limit the top speed some other way or just adjust the formula. Anyone got any good workarounds?
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Old 04-03-2021, 12:58 PM   #2
Parody
 
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Default Re: Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

The minimum Top Speed for a Car, Cycle, or Trike is 60, so I'm not surprised there's an equivalent for Oversized vehicles.

What problem are you trying to solve by lowering Top Speeds?
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Old 04-03-2021, 02:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

"You noticed that too, huh?" :)

Yes, you've been calculating OSTS correctly. A simple solution would be to use a lower multiplier -- say, 200.
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Old 04-04-2021, 09:31 AM   #4
Uncle Edgar
 
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Default Re: Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

Hi Vimes !
I'm going to play mindreader here, and suggest that the higher top speed was so trucks would have longer range at normal cruising speeds - so they can properly fulfil their in-game role as long distance cargo carrier. But I agree that one unintended consequence of this is that they get very high top speeds when not hauling a load.

Suggestion I:
Top speed is 100, always. Increase the range at all speed by the fraction of maximum load you are carrying. So if you're only at half load, you get twice the range.

Suggestion II:
Calculate top speed as usual, but the truck cannot exceed 120mph without damaging the engine. The higher "top speed" from having more power doesn't let you go faster, but does allow you to cruise further.

Suggestion II:
Use the car top speed equations, tweaked to reduce the possible top speeds. Use R to represent the power/weight ratio. When fully loaded, R is 1. When unloaded R is about 3-4, call this M.
The original top speed equation is T = 200R/(R+1). turn the two constants into variables so you can tweak the equation: T = AR/(R+N).

You can now pick what you want top speed to be when fully loaded (T1) and unloaded (T2), call the ratio T2/T1 = U, then work backwards to get the top speed equation:

T2/T1 = U = (AM/(M+N))/(A/(N+1)) = (MN+M)/(M+N)
Rearrange to get:
N = M(U-1)/(M-U)
A = T1*(N+1)

Example, I want the new top speed to be 80 when fully loaded, and limit it to 160 when fully unloaded and M = 4. The ratio T2/T1 = 2. The two constants become:
N = 4(1)/(4-2) = 2.
A = 80*(3) = 240.
Top speed equation becomes: T = 240R/(R+2)

If you do reduce top speed, I'd also recommend increasing the default range.

Last edited by Uncle Edgar; 04-04-2021 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Updated for clarity
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Old 04-05-2021, 11:14 AM   #5
Cdr Vimes
 
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Default Re: Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

Cheers all, food for thought.
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Old 04-05-2021, 01:01 PM   #6
juris
 
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Default Re: Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

For electric cars if an engine can just pull the car - TS 90mph
For gas - 60mph

HD Transmissions really mess this up - a gas engine can drop to a TS of 30, an electric to 60!

And yes this is a legal design with a TS of 172.5mph - bus racing!!!:

Allegory -- Streamlined Minibus, Standard chassis, Super power plant, 2 ISCs, Fire Extinguisher, 10 Standard tires, Driver w/BA and Safety Seat and 10-pt CA, Gunner w/HRSWC and BA and Safety Seat and 10-pt CA, Variable-Fire Rocket Pod in Turret w/extra magazine and magazine switch and 30 shots Normal and 30 shots Armor-Piercing, Heavy-Duty Shocks, Heavy-Duty Brakes, Antilock Brakes, Overdrive, Roll Cage, Spoiler, Airdam, Bumper Spikes (Front), Sloped Plastic Armor: F25, L20, R20, B20, T22, U10, 6 10-pt Wheelguards, Gear Allocation: [7 lbs.], Acceleration 2.5, Top Speed 172.5 +20 w/Overdrive, HC 1 (2 @60mph), 11993 lbs., $59804

Seriously through nobody drives over 60 in an oversized vehicle that's suicide.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdr Vimes View Post
Hello all, returning to the forums after several years away. Currently home brewing some Car Wars into a more detailed roleplaying system, for some Mad Max style play. However using the design rules as written as they work.

However I don't think I ever noticed before how the top speed calculations work. If I am doing it correctly an Oversized vehicle, if it has an engine that can just pull its max load, will always have a top speed of 100mph and if running empty the speeds can be well in excess of that. It seems wrong when most cars work out far less.

I'm not sue whether to limit the top speed some other way or just adjust the formula. Anyone got any good workarounds?
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Old 04-07-2021, 01:17 AM   #7
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

Perhaps it would have made more sense if they had just extrapolated the table for PPs a little and then applied the HD Transmission rule by default for oversized vehicles. The fluff implies that the plants just provide electrical power (basically they are banks of rechargeable batteries) and the motors themselves are in the wheels, so logically larger plants are just larger banks of batteries. Higher current capacity would generate more torque which could translate to higher acceleration or just greater load (which are the two variables in the F=Ma equation) whichever you get is determined by the motor and transmission, not the battery.

It should be remembered however that Tractors that are bob-tailing (and thus more likely to be under their design load maximum) have even lower HC than normal. That will impose an effective maximum speed, regardless of theoretical top speed.

Efficiency also dictates that you don't fit a more powerful plant than required (since you don't improve acceleration). An overly powerful plant just burns valuable space and weight that could be spent on more useful things (like armour and weapons). The lack of granularity in Truck plants doesn't help though.

I also use the condition of roads and bridges when I want to impose speed constraints on my players. The Bandit might be able to cross that rickety bridge at 100, but Snowman is likely to shake it to prices if he puts the hammer down.

With those considerations in mind, I have never seen it as a real issue.

But if you want to go semi racing...
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Old 04-07-2021, 03:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
But if you want to go semi racing...
NOVA did that once.

*ONCE*.... >;)
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:57 AM   #9
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

Reading around it seems that a top speed over 100 when fully loaded isn't unheard of. Most commercial trucks however have governors/limiters fitted for insurance and legal reasons.

If you want to simulate the older style trucks that couldn't go faster than 80 or so unless in freefall you could just change the number at the front of the formula to something you're happier with. The first number in the equation is the maximum possible with no load, it will be less than half that when at full load (the unladen weight needs to be considered). 150 would put you at 75 fully loaded and not much above 100 unloaded. Older trucks could have 100 as the first number making a top speed of 50 fully loaded and 70-80 even unladen.

It's your game ;)
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Old 04-13-2021, 11:50 AM   #10
JimTullis
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Default Re: Oversized Vehicle Top Speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
... it will be less than half that when at full load (the unladen weight needs to be considered). 150 would put you at 75 fully loaded and not much above 100 unloaded. Older trucks could have 100 as the first number making a top speed of 50 fully loaded and 70-80 even unladen.

It's your game ;)
Sorry, you said unladen...
Bridgekeeper: What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
King Arthur: What do you mean? An African or a European swallow?

This thread has been an interesting read.
I'd like to see some house rules for Rigs in 6th.
Parked rigs would be easy to use as terrain, but driving them would be much more exciting.
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