Card Error-Driving Gloves

[e6host]

A somewhat odd suggestion for the dice color issue:

Since the cards use stoplight style slotting for die color, why not leave a number on the face of the die that corresponds to that slot?

So:
Red=1
Yellow=2
...

You could do it so that the number is only on one face as well... Adds a little time to dice identification, but it's something...

[JimTullis]

Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke

Unfortunately, the dice are urea and not acrylic, so the color palette is extremely limited — there are only 7 options.

Thanks for the explanation. That probably also explains why the dice are so dense compared to most of the game dice I have.

[Sam Mitschke]

@Magesmiley
Multiple ink colors on a single die is expensive — they're hand-painted, so it adds time and technique — but it's possible. However, most of our available color combinations would simply shift the problem from one impairment group to another without solving the overarching issue (that's not to say there aren't options out there, but we were unable to find anything that worked in a uniform or consistent way).

@e6host
Numbering the dice — or rather, lettering them — could work, with the card and text icons showing an alphanumeric combination. For example, if the yellow dice are "A" dice, then the icon for 2 yellow dice could show [A2]. It might even be possible to sculpt the letter in the center of the star (1-hit) icons. That said, I do not have any significant visual impairments, so it feels inappropriate for me to defend the merit of this or any other proposed solution.

Whatever method we choose also risks confusing players without visual impairments, which is an exponentially larger audience (this was very true of some of the ideas we tested internally, such as patterned backgrounds). The solution we use needs to ACTUALLY help a significant number of visually-impaired players, or we risk making the game less accessible for everyone. The sadder truth is that any official fix is unlikely to happen soon — or at all — without *substantial* demand for a reprint (to justify the ever-increasing cost of materials and molds). I can only promise that I'm listening intently in order to learn more and do better next time.

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke

@Magesmiley
Multiple ink colors on a single die is expensive — they're hand-painted, so it adds time and technique — but it's possible. However, most of our available color combinations would simply shift the problem from one impairment group to another without solving the overarching issue (that's not to say there aren't options out there, but we were unable to find anything that worked in a uniform or consistent way).

I was thinking more of keeping the ink color the same on all of the faces for each die color. Just using different ink colors to help differentiate the various dice better. Essentially instead of using only white/black for each die, use some other color instead for the entire die. Ink/paint come in a much wider range than plastics, with not a lot of variation in the cost.

Not perfect, but I suspect an orange ink on all of the faces of the blue die and white on all of the faces of the black one, for example (and also making the number in the box for the die on the cards match the die ink), would help with some of the issues.

Using the opposite color on the color wheel for each die's ink color makes a good contrast usually. It would give two colors instead of one on each die to help differentiate it better, which could help those with color issues.

I will admit that I'm a bit surprised that the dice are hand painted. I would've thought that with only six images that some form of pad printing could be cost effective.

[Sam Mitschke]

I misunderstood, sorry. Yes, different inks is possible, as we did on the included dice with white and black ink. By using any ink colors other than black or white, however, we introduce other issues. We also potentially introduce rules confusion for ALL players. When we refer to "yellow dice" — does that mean yellow plastic or yellow pips? And since the most common form of colorblindness can make green, yellow, and red indistinguishable, we lose half of our already-limited plastic options (I'm not counting the 7th color, beige, because it's almost white and the available shade is ugly enough that we wouldn't use it anyway). To get more color options for the dice, we'd have to switch to acrylic, and the cost goes up substantially.

Predictable information layout is more helpful in our case, but we are limited by the board game medium. We'd have to either pick icons-only (which we did at the painful cost of introducing colorblindness issues), text-only (risking readability and UI problems for everyone), or a combination (risking rules confusion — for example, an exploitative player could claim that a yellow [1] icon means something other than "one yellow die" unless the rules are written in precise legalese, which then makes the rules much less accessible). We were unable to find a functional middle ground. This is why I am currently in favor of the alphanumeric option described earlier, but I still can't be certain it would solve the issue, and it may be outside of our manufacturing tolerances, to boot.

- - - - -

Yep, dice are typically hand-painted. A batch of dice are fitted into a jig, slathered with paint, and then wiped down so only the pips are left painted. Then the batch is flipped and the process repeats for all six sides. It blew my mind when I saw it, but it's most likely due to the massive number of custom die shapes and sizes — having a dedicated machine, or even dedicated sub-parts, for each type of die eats up real estate and maintenance time, and costs the publisher more for tooling/jigs/etc.

There is a review on BGG in which the writer feels they overpaid for what came in the box. While I disagree, it's a perfectly reasonable assessment from anyone unfamiliar with current manufacturing costs. That sentiment would become a widespread complaint if we used pad-printed dice. The vast majority of vocal gamers think pad-printed dice are cheap and not durable, even though that isn't always the case.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke

There is a review on BGG in which the writer feels they overpaid for what came in the box.

As you stated, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

FWIW, I was on the fence in getting the Double Ace box in the Kickstarter as it was a bit of money. After receiving it, I was ASTOUNDED by how much stuff I received for my money.

I am not a painter at all so when I ordered, the miniatures were low on my list of the items I ordered. I was IMMENSELY surprised at the sculpts and am extremely glad I got the add-on minis.

I keep expecting the police to come to my door and charging me with robbery!

[Sam Mitschke]

@kjamma4
Thank you for saying that! We tried to pack it full of content, but not everyone will find value in the same places. I've hated some massively-popular things (crafting in video games, for example), so I can't fault anyone for their feelings.

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke

I misunderstood, sorry. Yes, different inks is possible, as we did on the included dice with white and black ink. By using any ink colors other than black or white, however, we introduce other issues. We also potentially introduce rules confusion for ALL players. When we refer to "yellow dice" — does that mean yellow plastic or yellow pips? And since the most common form of colorblindness can make green, yellow, and red indistinguishable, we lose half of our already-limited plastic options (I'm not counting the 7th color, beige, because it's almost white and the available shade is ugly enough that we wouldn't use it anyway). To get more color options for the dice, we'd have to switch to acrylic, and the cost goes up substantially.

Predictable information layout is more helpful in our case, but we are limited by the board game medium. We'd have to either pick icons-only (which we did at the painful cost of introducing colorblindness issues), text-only (risking readability and UI problems for everyone), or a combination (risking rules confusion — for example, an exploitative player could claim that a yellow [1] icon means something other than "one yellow die" unless the rules are written in precise legalese, which then makes the rules much less accessible). We were unable to find a functional middle ground. This is why I am currently in favor of the alphanumeric option described earlier, but I still can't be certain it would solve the issue, and it may be outside of our manufacturing tolerances, to boot.

- - - - -

Yep, dice are typically hand-painted. A batch of dice are fitted into a jig, slathered with paint, and then wiped down so only the pips are left painted. Then the batch is flipped and the process repeats for all six sides. It blew my mind when I saw it, but it's most likely due to the massive number of custom die shapes and sizes — having a dedicated machine, or even dedicated sub-parts, for each type of die eats up real estate and maintenance time, and costs the publisher more for tooling/jigs/etc.

There is a review on BGG in which the writer feels they overpaid for what came in the box. While I disagree, it's a perfectly reasonable assessment from anyone unfamiliar with current manufacturing costs. That sentiment would become a widespread complaint if we used pad-printed dice. The vast majority of vocal gamers think pad-printed dice are cheap and not durable, even though that isn't always the case.

I don't think that most players would be confused by the ink color when referring to dice. Gamers already have a wide variety of colored dice with different colored symbols/numbers on them. I've yet to meet one who refers to a die's color by the color of the ink.

As to the reference on colors on the cards, what I was suggesting was to also make the number inside the colored die square on the cards match the color of the ink on the die. So 2 yellow dice on a card would be indicated by a yellow square with a 2 in the color of the symbols on the yellow die. Which would also make the matching die a bit clearer to counter the rules lawyers. ;)

With green/yellow/red being indistinguishable, as long as either the die or the ink had a viewable color, they could still be distinguished from one another (provided that you only used each ink color and die color on one type of die). A red die, as long as it used an ink, such as blue (and was the only die which did), which could be seen, would work. Similarly, a blue die with red ink would work too. This would work on the cards too. The key point being to use the combination of die/ink colors to maximize the chances that players can identify them. It's not perfect, but it provides an additional cue that can potentially be identified.

[Sam Mitschke]

There may be a solution sitting there, sure, but it's expensive — making the dice like that would have increased the MSRP by *at least* $10-15 per copy of the game.

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke

There may be a solution sitting there, sure, but it's expensive — making the dice like that would have increased the MSRP by *at least* $10-15 per copy of the game.

Using a different color of ink, but otherwise keeping the process the same would add that much? I know ink is expensive and that there's a setup cost for each color, but I didn't realize that the price was that much different. Wow.