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Old 12-25-2021, 10:52 PM   #1
baakyocalder
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento metro, California
Default Card Error-Driving Gloves

The Driving Gloves card (Gear, Crew Pack) green die looks like a blue die in low light conditions.

What was done to help individuals with color impairment distinguish the colors when we don't have the set boxes such as on the weapon cards?
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Last edited by baakyocalder; 12-26-2021 at 10:38 AM. Reason: user error or notification
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Old 12-26-2021, 10:02 AM   #2
powellhall
 
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Default Re: Card Error-Driving Gloves

All of my cards look fine. Should be green. Compare your Driving Gloves card with your Holographic Sight card for color comparison.
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Old 12-27-2021, 07:13 AM   #3
Sam Mitschke
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Card Error-Driving Gloves

Low-light conditions cause blue and black to look similar, too. The physical dice HAD to be color-coded due to material/cost limitations. We were unable to find a consistent way to reference the dice colors in print that didn't add confusion elsewhere. The game is unfortunately not very friendly to visual-impairments, and that is one of my biggest regrets about it.
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Old 12-27-2021, 07:39 AM   #4
baakyocalder
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento metro, California
Default Re: Card Error-Driving Gloves

At least on the weapon cards, the dice have slots, so you can tell the difference.

And maybe there's a way to just make a physical card list with specifics on the dice used for those who can't distinguish colors well. Since each die has a different pattern of shields, wrenches and stars, that's an alternative way to view the dice used.
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Old 12-27-2021, 11:39 AM   #5
Sam Mitschke
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Default Re: Card Error-Driving Gloves

We stacked the slots on the weapon cards for exactly this reason, but I know it isn't enough. It's still reliant on players being able to tell the actual dice apart from one another, and there aren't many other places where that system could have worked, anyway. Distinguishing the dice icons in the running text is going to be outright impossible for some players, as well.

This is one of those design areas where I'm hoping players in need of a solution can generate something that works. I have to to watch and learn from them how to do it better on the design side. Randy and I put conscious effort into accommodating for visual impairments for all of our games, but we couldn't find a viable solution in this case — it was always a hodgepodge of multiple methods that still didn't work well.
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Old 12-27-2021, 01:41 PM   #6
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Card Error-Driving Gloves

Way-back-when, I had a similar problem.

The game _Crimson Skies_ was a Going Concern; one problem was with the mapsheets -- elevated hexes were indicated by a yellow dot; one of the "Secret Masters of _Crimson Skies_" was color-blind. I think you can see [excuse the pun] the problem.

The solution we were working towards was to have a symbol associated with "elevated terrain" which would show up even if one could only see it in non-color. For an example of this, look up the WW2-air-combat game _Mustangs_; every maneuver code is associated not only with a color, but a symbol:

-- Red Circle
-- White Diamond
-- Blue Square
-- Green Shield
-- Tan Triangle

[ https://boardgamegeek.com/image/289208/mustangs ]

I'm not sure how one would define the different colors of dice in 6E, though.
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Old 12-27-2021, 04:11 PM   #7
baakyocalder
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Default Re: Card Error-Driving Gloves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke View Post
We stacked the slots on the weapon cards for exactly this reason, but I know it isn't enough. It's still reliant on players being able to tell the actual dice apart from one another, and there aren't many other places where that system could have worked, anyway. Distinguishing the dice icons in the running text is going to be outright impossible for some players, as well.

This is one of those design areas where I'm hoping players in need of a solution can generate something that works. I have to to watch and learn from them how to do it better on the design side. Randy and I put conscious effort into accommodating for visual impairments for all of our games, but we couldn't find a viable solution in this case — it was always a hodgepodge of multiple methods that still didn't work well.
Since the dice have different numbers of stars, wrenches, and shields, that may be the solution. For the text, simply having another document stating the dice of each gear item might work. I'll have to look up the online policy to see if that's a reasonable compilation because saying which dice a card has makes the card less necessary to own.
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Currently Running: Without Number family games which use a lot of GURPS material for details when the players start asking(online, sporadically)

Waiting For: Schedule Sanity to Play Car Wars and my Fnordcon special alt Car Wars cards!
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Old 12-28-2021, 04:58 PM   #8
JimTullis
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Default Re: Card Error-Driving Gloves

I know this is too late for Car Wars, but I wonder if in future games it would help if Blue Dice were Maersk Blue instead of Dark Blue. Maersk Blue is how some people reference the pale blue Legos vs the standard blue Legos.
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Old 12-28-2021, 05:52 PM   #9
Sam Mitschke
Chief Creative Officer
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Card Error-Driving Gloves

Unfortunately, the dice are urea and not acrylic, so the color palette is extremely limited — there are only 7 options. The only color we DIDN'T use is beige. Had we switched to acrylic, it would have almost doubled the manufacturing cost of the dice, which would have translated into pass-through consumer cost.

I would have LOVED to use Maersk blue — that's a great color, and I will absolutely keep that in mind next time I'm able to use acrylic dice. Thanks!
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Old 12-29-2021, 07:53 AM   #10
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Card Error-Driving Gloves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke View Post
We stacked the slots on the weapon cards for exactly this reason, but I know it isn't enough. It's still reliant on players being able to tell the actual dice apart from one another, and there aren't many other places where that system could have worked, anyway. Distinguishing the dice icons in the running text is going to be outright impossible for some players, as well.

This is one of those design areas where I'm hoping players in need of a solution can generate something that works. I have to to watch and learn from them how to do it better on the design side. Randy and I put conscious effort into accommodating for visual impairments for all of our games, but we couldn't find a viable solution in this case — it was always a hodgepodge of multiple methods that still didn't work well.
A question on the general design of the dice:

Would it be feasible (and cost effective) to use other (contrasting) colors for the symbols on the dice? And for the number inside the box on the card? That could give an additional way to help distinguish between the various dice.

For example, blue dice could have orange symbols and the black ones white (with a corresponding orange/white number inside the box on the cards).

I realize that may not help everone, but it could help more than a few.
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