The Gamma Trip: attempting to port some Gamma World stuff to TFT

[wishmaster]

The Gamma Trip: Penny For Your Thoughts?
Hi everyone! I'm making a post here to ask for suggestions, tips, and tricks for a project I'm going to be starting pretty soon, as well as just to give anyone who might be interested a heads up.

• WTF is this?
  I've been playing Melee and Wizard for a couple of weeks now with my dad (thanks to the lockdown we can't assemble a larger group) and we're going to be moving to the full RPG system with In The Labyrinth soon. Suffice it to say, I'm very new to the game, having barely even started it. However, I've been considering porting the mutations, items, weapons, and monsters from Gamma World 2e to TFT, as a sort of Science Fiction skin/expansion pack.
  
• Why use Fantasy Trip?
  First of all, the simplicity of TFT is really attractive, and combat is a blast. Second of all, TFT is actually capable of being played solo (or, in this case, without a GM), especially with an enemy AI card deck that I found, but even through things like Death Test and other adventures designed for solo play. This means that if you have two players, both can choose to be characters, instead of one having to GM and the other having to be a lonely player. Playing minus a GM when it's just two people is a lot more fun. This is the perfect quarantine RPG!
  
  All these considerations make TFT a significantly better choice than directly playing GW or adapting it to D&D 5e, for example: the simplicity lends flexibility; the great crunchiness of the combat rules makes playing it, when you don't have a lot of leeway for roleplaying shenanigans, much more fun; and the two-player nature makes things less awkward. Even better, TFT seems flexible enough to handle the new content.
  
• Why port Gamma World?
  The answer to the previous question means that I really like the TFT system, but unfortunately, I'm not too interested in the cliche fantasy world (although it has its old-fashioned charm). Gamma World has the potential to fix this: a really fun, wacky, satirical post-apocalypse science fiction theme, full of pulpiness and hilarious yet interesting items. It's not a particularly balanced game, perhaps, but its a lot more interesting as a world to play in, and TFT is sorely lacking interesting monsters, items, and such anyway.
  
• So, what's the plan?
  Right now, I'm finishing up really becoming familiar with the rules in Wizard by playing a few more games. After that, I'm going to be playing all the solo adventures I can with the full RPG rules (my dad located all the Metagaming adventures), and really trying to get a holistic view of the game.
  
  Once I feel confidant enough — with enough experience in each relevant aspect of the game — I'm going to start up a Google Doc, crack open my GW 2e manual, and start porting. I'll be referencing (loosely) this guide for monsters: https://inthelabyrinth.org/the-fanta...g-monsters-dd/, as well as just doing my best to make things fit. I'll probably have mutations work like talents or spells (depending on the mutation), and use the IQ limitation as the number of mutations you have to roll for, as well as putting a limit on what mental mutations do. I'll probably use the magic item rules for a lot of the items, but I'll be porting most of the weapons pretty straightforwardly, maybe using the gun rules as a base for laser weapons or whatever.
  
  I'm also thinking about setting up vehicle combat, maybe by incorporating Car Wars, but that's way down the road.

What do you guys think? Thanks!

Update here: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...71#post2321071

[Skarg]

Well, I'd say go ahead an do it and have fun!

I would say that you're correct that TFT can be great to play two player solitaire mode. But I'd also say that single-player with a GM can also be great. As can a mix where the GM plays other NPC comrades of the PC.

But also, I would say that TFT doesn't really need wacky monsters to be fun and interesting. Not that it can't be fun to have wacky monsters anyway, but even in a game with, say, only humans, the game situations tend to be interesting because the rules make sense and the combat system is fun even with just a few ordinary people fighting each other.

I think Gamma World and other games that have a really wacky variety of monsters, abilities, magic, and very steep differences between levels and different types of monsters, because those games lack interesting/fun tactical combat sub-games, so those games would tend to be less interesting without them.

Also, when converting monsters and magic and adventures from other RPGs with different types of power, it can be pretty severely random what the gameplay and deadliness ends up being like when converted to TFT. And the tactical game can be rather different when monsters or PCs are, say, immune to certain things (including regular weapons and tactics, the mainstays of TFT), or very deadly unless you have ability X, etc.

But if you're happy to mix the two and enjoy the zany high-powered and deadly results, then go for it!

[wishmaster]

You make some really good points, thanks for responding.

Originally Posted by Skarg

Well, I'd say go ahead an do it and have fun!

I would say that you're correct that TFT can be great to play two player solitaire mode. But I'd also say that single-player with a GM can also be great. As can a mix where the GM plays other NPC comrades of the PC.

I like your suggestions about how to play 2p! I might just try them out with some of the non-solo adventures and see if they work out, since we have a couple multiplayer ones too.

But also, I would say that TFT doesn't really need wacky monsters to be fun and interesting. Not that it can't be fun to have wacky monsters anyway, but even in a game with, say, only humans, the game situations tend to be interesting because the rules make sense and the combat system is fun even with just a few ordinary people fighting each other.

Totally! I think I made it sound like I didn't like TFT very much in my OP, but that's totally not true. I love this game already, as it is. The mechanics are just so good! TFT doesn't need wacky zany things or a more complicated theme to be a damn good game and all that. But for me, it really helps to have an interesting theme too. I'm just trying to make it even more fun for me and people like me.

I think Gamma World and other games that have a really wacky variety of monsters, abilities, magic, and very steep differences between levels and different types of monsters, because those games lack interesting/fun tactical combat sub-games, so those games would tend to be less interesting without them.

I haven't found that to be true. Games that spend a lot of time making a lot of interesting, unique, and creative material tend to be better, in my opinion. Not always, but its definitely not an inverse relationship. Gamma World 2e was based on an improvement of AD&D, too, a game which was good and popular on its own without crazy stuff. OTOH, games like TFT don't even need crazy extranious material to be fun, which is a whole 'nother level of quality.

Also, when converting monsters and magic and adventures from other RPGs with different types of power, it can be pretty severely random what the gameplay and deadliness ends up being like when converted to TFT. And the tactical game can be rather different when monsters or PCs are, say, immune to certain things (including regular weapons and tactics, the mainstays of TFT), or very deadly unless you have ability X, etc.

I didn't think about possible gameplay problems and deadliness. The article I have talked about how to adjust that stuff for monsters, but I'll definitely have to do a bit of playtesting.

[Chris Rice]

That sounds amazing. I haven't played Gamma World for a very long time but I loved its goofy, gonzo style back in the day. Could be a perfect fit for TFT.

As you say, TFT is mechanically super simple in its basics: 3 stats, and roll 3d6 against to succeed. I used it for many different genres from Western to Cthulhu, from Sci-Fi to WW2.

I say go for it and good luck.

[larsdangly]

Go crazy, dude; I feel like GW is totally within scope of the sorts of game worlds TFT is for: mix of high and low tech; monsters; deadly; a little gonzo. Security Station is a canon TFT solo adventure that could be plopped right into a GW campaign. And the notions behind Cidri could permit a GW sort of setting just over the horizon from more familiar spots.

One bit of advice re. powers: I would start by looking at the Supers article in the TFT Companion; the individual powers might not all be relevant (though some are), but I would say the overall structure of those rules could be good.

[shawndumas]

The Supers article would be a great resource! We just purchased Decks of Destiny and ordered a paperback version @wishmaster. We also have all the Hexagram magazines coming too btw.

This will be interesting to play test together. Very excited.

[wishmaster]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Go crazy, dude; I feel like GW is totally within scope of the sorts of game worlds TFT is for: mix of high and low tech; monsters; deadly; a little gonzo. Security Station is a canon TFT solo adventure that could be plopped right into a GW campaign. And the notions behind Cidri could permit a GW sort of setting just over the horizon from more familiar spots.

I'm really glad to hear there's a bit of precedent for this, and that it might fit! I was worried that I might have to do a lot of finagling, but what originally gave me the inspiration was the mix of high/low tech and deadly nature of TFT!

One bit of advice re. powers: I would start by looking at the Supers article in the TFT Companion; the individual powers might not all be relevant (though some are), but I would say the overall structure of those rules could be good.

Oh, that's a very good idea. I'll look that article up when I really get going on this.

[TippetsTX]

What are your thoughts about the modern/futuristic weapons that a GW-style game would have? Seems like the damage one would expect from such ordinance would be problematic given the more limited 'hit point' capacity inherent in TFT.

Plasma rifle: the one-hit wonder!

[wishmaster]

TippetsTX,
Well, fireball and such spells already do so much damage they can one-shot tank figures with chain mail and large shields, so one-shot weapons don't seem to be that much of an issue. And there are already gun rules, so I'd take those and power them up only slightly — after all, for some of the things I'll be adding it'll be more about verisimilitude than brand new mechanics.

There's also the point of adding more powerful armor to balance it out. It won't balance out exactly the same, of course (otherwise what's the point?), since unarmored characters will be at even greater risk, but it'll make that even less of a problem.

[JimmyPlenty]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

What are your thoughts about the modern/futuristic weapons that a GW-style game would have? Seems like the damage one would expect from such ordinance would be problematic given the more limited 'hit point' capacity inherent in TFT.

Plasma rifle: the one-hit wonder!

I think they cover some things in The TFT companion. Lasers are like 4d IIRC, but I don't recall people having those off the bat.

I see the mutant power being the toughest to balance. But you know, just treat it as a experiment instead of "balance" The idea of gamma world was life in unfair. You could roll up a monster power character as much as you could roll up a dud. But that was the fun of it.