01-21-2021, 10:39 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
I'm looking at the Wraith template in Magic (page 160), and the template includes "Unhealing (Can heal with Steal HT) [-20]" and a "Racially Innate Spell: Steal HT-15 [20]."
Okay, so I know there're problems with 4e Magic and especially with this entry, including that the spell in question is not Steal HT (which is actually Steal Vigor) but Steal Vitality (on page 150). But here's the problem with that: Steal Vitality says that the victim must be "willing or totally helpless" and that the spell stops "when the subject's HP reaches -1 (which automatically kills the subject)." But ... An unconscious character is almost certainly already going to be at 0 HP or less. Does that mean that if a Wraith beats a character unconscious, he can't Steal HP from them? The only way he can heal is to either have a willing minion or to grapple a conscious foe into "helplessness"? What does that even mean? Should I just toss out this template altogether and replace Steal Vitality with Leech? Has nobody ever addressed this problem with Wraith before? (I haven't been able to find any solutions on the forum, only complaints about the book, which isn't really helpful.) The real problem is with how the Steal Vitality spell is supposed to work. It seems basically useless as written; has nobody ever come up with a fix for this? |
01-21-2021, 10:57 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
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01-21-2021, 02:34 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
Leech (Accelerated Healing, +25%; Contact Agent, -30%; Takes Extra Time 2, -20%) [19] would be slightly cheaper, much more effective, and 15x faster than Steal Vigor.
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01-21-2021, 02:41 PM | #4 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
Fiction is full of people knocked or drugged unconscious without major injury or even professional anesthesia skill.
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01-21-2021, 02:47 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
Yes, but the wraith template doesn't include competency with any methods of doing so.
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01-22-2021, 02:23 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Saskatoon, SK
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Re: Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
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Victim must be completely unaware/helpless Must hit the victim in the skull Roll damage normally, including any dr, including skull Victim takes no damage but rolls HT - damage taken. If they fail, they fall unconscious but suffer no damage.
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MiB 7704 Playing: GURPS Nordlond Dragons of Hosgarth Running Savage Worlds Tour of Darkness (Vietnam + Mythos) |
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01-22-2021, 02:42 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
GURPS Magic often feels like a bit of a GURPS 3rd Edition port, and this extends to the templates in them.
For one extreme example the Wraith shouldn't get 150 points back for having a quite possibly plain-looking ring that they will die without. That implies that the dependency on the ring is more of a disadvantage than, say, being rooted to the ground (No Legs, Sessile) and Cursed. In practice removing a wraith's ring is more difficult than stabbing someone in the heart, and being able to commit suicide at will is a perk, not a disadvantage. I'm not sure I'd even give points for the dependency on a simple ring considering how easy it is to keep it on at all times. Especially since the Wraith has Supernatural Durability and hence can only be crippled (while at negative hp), not dismembered. Grappling it off a creature with Death Touch also seems quite extreme. So you're basically trying to destroy a tiny nondescript item on this thing. For most adventurers just hitting it repeatedly with a magically enchanted sword it far easier even if you know about the ring (and the Wraith doesn't pull a stunt like having a heavily decorated 'decoy' ring). If you're actually going to have a Wraith PC (or Ally) I'd suggest just rebuilding the template with advantages. As an NPC it doesn't really matter how you build it as long as you know what it does.
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"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared" Last edited by RedMattis; 01-22-2021 at 02:45 AM. |
01-22-2021, 02:51 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
It seems to me that being grappled into immobility is close enough to total helplessness. And the wraiths do have +5 ST.
Failing that a wraith could prey on sleeping victims. |
01-22-2021, 02:57 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
I think being pinned counts as helpless. Though with the DF version of Technical Grappling I recall it was tricky to actually fully pin someone if they have comparable strength.
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"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared" |
01-22-2021, 04:23 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: Wraith, Unhealing, and Steal Vitality?
Apparently the people who wrote and edited Magic didn't have access to the final version of the 4th edition rules.
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Tags |
leech, requires grapple, steal vitality, unhealing, wraith |
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