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Old 03-17-2007, 06:35 AM   #11
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmetahuman
The static only lasts 10 seconds, but it otherwise does everything that the Neutralize does. I'd like some kind of limitation to make Static correspond with what your Dispel Only does with Neutralize (a classic Dispel should negate effects but not abilities, IMO), but clearly Static will be cheaper and also affect everything worn and carried.

Though I'm thinking I'm either misinterpreting the effects of Static on others somehow, or ranged Static shouldn't be cheaper than ranged Neutralize.
Static has some issues that make it difficult to use as the basis for Dispel. You mentioned the duration, and the fact that it cancels both abilities and effects. You'd need to make it instantaneous, because otherwise, the target becomes a Static generator <heh> for the duration... and there's the pesky inherent limit to Static that prevents you from having powers with the source your Static negates. You might be able to work around some of those problems by making it an Affliction.
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:06 AM   #12
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery
Static has some issues that make it difficult to use as the basis for Dispel. You mentioned the duration, and the fact that it cancels both abilities and effects. You'd need to make it instantaneous, because otherwise, the target becomes a Static generator <heh> for the duration... and there's the pesky inherent limit to Static that prevents you from having powers with the source your Static negates. You might be able to work around some of those problems by making it an Affliction.
I wasn't clear - esthetically, I prefer Neutralize, too. But from the dispeler's viewpoint, all those things about Static you pointed out are benefits, and ranged Static costs less than ranged Neutralize.

Static explicitly can take the Ranged enhancement, so I've been assuming that someone hit by it will have all (source) effects *and* abilities negated for the 10 seconds, without making it an Affliction - how else would Ranged Static work? And that 10 seconds can be increased more cheaply with Extended Duration than Neutralize can be, though Neutralize does start out with a longer duration.

Or did you mean that someone shouldn't be able to have even a ranged Static ability and still have any other abilities from the same source? That doesn't make a lot of sense, except as pure meta-game compensation for its price - and Affliction (Static) is even cheaper than Static (Ranged), though there'd be other adjustments to the ability's resistance and such.

Last edited by transmetahuman; 03-17-2007 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 03-17-2007, 12:31 PM   #13
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmetahuman
I wasn't clear - esthetically, I prefer Neutralize, too. But from the dispeler's viewpoint, all those things about Static you pointed out are benefits, and ranged Static costs less than ranged Neutralize.
My point was just that Static has to be tweaked a bit more to get it to fit the concept of Dispel. If we accept KP's proposal of +50% as a fair value for the Dispelling enhancement (to Neutralize), it is a more elegant fix than the mods that would be needed for Static. I personally think that it's better to work from Static, since taking an effect away (taking away the negation of abilities from Static) is more palatable than adding a new effect (adding the ability to drain effects to Neutralize). JMO
Quote:
Or did you mean that someone shouldn't be able to have even a ranged Static ability and still have any other abilities from the same source? That doesn't make a lot of sense, except as pure meta-game compensation for its price - and Affliction (Static) is even cheaper than Static (Ranged), though there'd be other adjustments to the ability's resistance and such.
That was what I meant... do you think that buying Ranged should also count as a form of Cosmic and allow the overriding of that inherent limitation? I'd think that it (Ranged) should be more expensive, in that case.
Affliction (Static) does look like it's worth considering, as it adds the desired resistibility, range, and increased duration, and eliminates even the question of whether Static (Ranged) allows the possession of abilities with the affected source.

No, you first, my dear Gaston!

Last edited by Not another shrubbery; 03-17-2007 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Neutralize as "dispelling" now has become part of the official rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psionic Powers, p. 16
Interruption: You cannot truly neutralize a psi's powers, but if you win a Quick Contest of Will, you can negate one instance of them, canceling one psi's abilities as they affect one specific target. For example, you could force a telepath out of someone's head or force a teke to drop something. He can try again on his next turn, as a repeated attempt (p. 6). You must touch the psi or the target. If this is combined with Ranged, use the shorter of the distance to the psi or the distance to the effect being disrupted. Note that Neutralize can be used this way without this limitation. -50%.
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Old 04-07-2009, 01:57 AM   #15
transmetahuman
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurps Fan
Neutralize as "dispelling" now has become part of the official rules.
I didn't think of it while reading Psionic Powers, because all of those abilities require a skill roll to activate, but re-reading this thread made me wonder what Interruption does to (non-psionic, but appropriately sourced) Always On abilities of the subject himself. Does the interruption just last until the beginning of his next turn? A minute per level? Not affect it at all?

Psionic DR (from, say, Psychokinesis or Ergokinesis) wouldn't seem to be affected at all against instantaneous attacks, since you roll separately versus each one. I assume you could cut off someone's resistance to continuing damage - I'm guessing if he wants to recover it, it would count as a repeated attempt?
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:08 AM   #16
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmetahuman
what Interruption does to (non-psionic, but appropriately sourced) Always On abilities of the subject himself. Does the interruption just last until the beginning of his next turn? A minute per level? Not affect it at all?
I'd say it would be the beginning of their next turn. Interruption says that an affected psi can try again next turn, and I'd rule that Always On abilities are effectively "trying" to activate every turn.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:15 AM   #17
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen
I'd say it would be the beginning of their next turn. Interruption says that an affected psi can try again next turn, and I'd rule that Always On abilities are effectively "trying" to activate every turn.
Hmm... not unreasonable. I'd say that Interruption probably shouldn't work on Always On abilities, because there isn't a discrete instance or activation involved. Of course, those traits can be Neutralized as per the rules in Powers.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

According to Psionic Powers (p. 16), the unmodified Neutralize can be used to interrupt the effect without Interruption limitation; Neutralize (Interruption, -50%) means that this advantage can be used only to interrupt. Then, how many percent should it be worth if I can suspend all of the target's powers of a given source but cannot interrupt any ongoing effect?
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurps Fan
According to Psionic Powers (p. 16), the unmodified Neutralize can be used to interrupt the effect without Interruption limitation; Neutralize (Interruption, -50%) means that this advantage can be used only to interrupt. Then, how many percent should it be worth if I can suspend all of the target's powers of a given source but cannot interrupt any ongoing effect?
I'd only give -5% for that. Interruption is far less useful than actual Neutralization in every situation except one where the psi himself (but not the subject) is out of your reach. Compare "I stopped Mr. Mind from controlling this one guy" (meanwhile, Mr. Mind is flying, setting people on fire, and controlling a bunch of other people) versus "I turned Mr. Mind off."

It seems about as limiting as Fixed Range (from Clairvoyance), the first level of Minimum Range (from Powers) or an annoyance Nuisance Effect. So yeah, -5% sounds right to me.
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Neutralize Enhancement Idea: Dispelling

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Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty
Compare "I stopped Mr. Mind from controlling this one guy" (meanwhile, Mr. Mind is flying, setting people on fire, and controlling a bunch of other people) versus "I turned Mr. Mind off."
...
He's just a clever worm :|

heh
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