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Old 01-04-2016, 08:32 PM   #1
RogerWilco
 
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Default Academic skill levels

There was this other thread about magical skill, and I don't want to derail it, so I decided to post this as a separate question.

The talk in the other thread was partially about what would be a PhD level of skill. Someone there gauged it at 4 points in the subject/skill.

I consider that far to low.

I base this on the premise that the manual states that about 200 hours of study gives 1 cp. I find that quite reasonable. It gives you about 4 cp for each topic at high school level. I know it works out quite well for the languages I had to study at school, I could speak, read and write several at Accented by the time I was 18. Subjects studied at primary/elementary school could then be represented by a single cp.

That would put someone with a Master's degree at around 44 cp, and with a PhD at 80+. Those numbers would result in really high modifiers.

You could argue that someone studying for example Physics, will also learn some Chemistry, Electronics, Mathematics, Engineering, Computer Programming, etc. But that could be quite well represented by defaults to those subjects in most cases.

Alternatively one would have to split those 40-80 points into 30+ different subjects and assign 1-4 to each. But that would get into a lot of detail.

This makes some assumptions based on my own experience and the Dutch education system, so I'd be interested in how other people would see this.

Last edited by RogerWilco; 01-04-2016 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Academic skill levels

I know this isn't going to make anything easier but it does need to be said that not necessarily all of a classes study time is converted into skill point time. If I miss 1 in every 5 days of school I'm not getting the same mileage out of my schooling your formula may suggest and a truly accurate measurement of the skill level of academics needs to take this into account.
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Academic skill levels

As someone with a PhD, I would suggest that a doctoral degree itself may be best modeled in GURPS as a Hyper-specialization Perk.
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: Academic skill levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerWilco View Post
This makes some assumptions based on my own experience and the Dutch education system, so I'd be interested in how other people would see this.
There is an official answer here, written by Bill Stoddard. He did a nice job with it.
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/backtoschool/
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Academic skill levels

8 years at 40 weeks a year and 30 hours a week "learning"

some self taught, some not, some time spent proving you know the subject matter.

Say 300 hours to a point?

Equals 32 points divided into however many gurps skills comprise a doctorate. Some perks might also be picked up along the way too. Calculations deliberately erring towards caution.

A finicky GM might take a cost of living upgrade out of those points.
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: Academic skill levels

Remember those points are being spread across a number of skills including Savoir-Faire (learning institution type) and a general IQ+1.
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Old 01-04-2016, 10:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: Academic skill levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerWilco View Post
The talk in the other thread was partially about what would be a PhD level of skill. Someone there gauged it at 4 points in the subject/skill.

I consider that far to low.
There are different ways of looking at GURPS. One way is called the Cult of Stat Normalization and people who follow it tend to prefer low skill points, low skill values, low stat values, etc. Many of them don't believe that average people have hardly any points in any skills, doing most things off of default. Maybe having a Dabbler perk or two. Maybe one or two points in their most important skills. But generally, they see real people as being built on 25-50cp total and don't like high skills or stats. They will say a PhD has four points in the subject/skill.

Other people don't follow that notion.

B172 calls a masterful level of a skill between 20-25...and you are not getting to that skill level on 4cp. whswhs's Back to School as University Level teachers with a Teaching skill of 21--again, not something you are going to get for 4cp.

I'd say if you have a PhD in something, you are going to have high skill levels and have spent a lot of points. Now, those points won't only go into your primary skill.

Over the 7-8 years it took me to get my PhD (add in another four years for undergrad). I got a lot of points. Those points were used for a number of things, not just for points in Expert Skill (Musicology).

Yes points were put into Musicology.
But also Research, Writing, Teaching, Public Speaking
Because of my training I got some other Expert Skills. (American Studies, German Studies). I also got some Literature (Cultural Theory).
Then I got some Savoire Faire (Academic)
Probably some other random things here and there, Reputations for example. Maybe an Ally or Patron--or Enemy, depending on your relationship to your cohort and your advisor.

So you do get a lot of points (as long as you aren't a Stat Normalizer)--but you also have a lot of things to spend them on besides just your specialization skill.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: Academic skill levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
B172 calls a masterful level of a skill between 20-25...and you are not getting to that skill level on 4cp. whswhs's Back to School as University Level teachers with a Teaching skill of 21--again, not something you are going to get for 4cp.
Yes, though that's buying them as Contacts. Remember that a Contact has an effective skill, which represents not only personal learning and practice, but also organizational support. If you are a tenured faculty member at a serious university, your students have the benefit of an excellent library, teaching assistants and tutors, counseling, and various other resources.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: Academic skill levels

Actually, it seems one of the major components of PhD level coursework is the massively painful yanking away of just that safety net

The university will have lots of counselors and tutoring centers and TAs and such to help try to avoid losing to many incoming freshmen in introductory level classes, but those safety net mechanisms get taken by the PhD level, which is one of the major painful hurdles to overcome
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Academic skill levels

Don't forget the Hyperspecialization perk, various social advantages (mostly perks like Contacts and Claim to Hospitality and access to rare resources), and that the point cost will vary widely depending on how useful the skills taught are in action stories. A PhD in Ballistics or Field Anthropology will probably be worth many more points than a PhD in Theoretical Physics or French Literature. I don't know of anyone who seriously thinks that a PhD should only have 4 points in their main job skill though ... I think that most people would peg the appropriate skill levels somewhere in the 14-18 range. Whether the best skills are research, self-promotion, management, or political manoeuvering will depend on where they work and the state of their career ...
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