Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It simply isn't true that GURPS has never had a supported successful setting,

I would agree, but I think that your definition and mine aren't what others are talking about here, because this . . .

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

(unless your definition of support or success is much more stringent than mine).

. . . is accurate, and suggests that your feelings about this . . .

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

THS has 15 books and e-books. I note that the OP cited Ebberon as an example of a supported setting; it has 21 books (not counting tie-in novels and the dubious "Adventurer's Guide" recycled art coffee table book).

. . . differ from some other people's feelings. Specifically, "support" generally seems to mean three things:

1. Lots of books.
2. Regular releases, preferably for years.
3. Many tie-ins that help "bring the setting to life," like art books, computer games, miniatures, novels, and heck, even T-shirts and plush dolls.

And I'll admit that we barely got past #1, never seemed to manage the schedule of #2, and certainly never went as far as #3.

[carllarson]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I just want to post my opinion. Granted SJ Games is too small to work on worlds and settings but one thing I think would be really good would to have GURPS do more close work that directly relates to what is "hot" in the market. For instance, I learned about GURPS from GURPS Vampire the Masquerade* which was a very good book. They explained the powers and the rules system was straight forward. This book had to be licenced but could GURPS do a book like Secret Vampire Societies and have rules for vampires and some discussion of how the would hide in society and how they may interact with other vampires ect.?

I think that if GURPS is just a rules system then should GURPS try to follow other games and then give rules for how to play them using GURPS rules? Also the GURPS writers are good at explaining the rules and how things should work.

*After this I stopped playing RPGs until DF came out.

THis could be detrimental, leaving SJG open to screams of bandwagoning and
an opinion of copycatting. Appearance would be that they couldn't do it themselves, so they drag along on the coattails of someone else. IMO, not a good way to go.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kromm

. . . differ from some other people's feelings. Specifically, "support" generally seems to mean three things:

1. Lots of books.
2. Regular releases, preferably for years.
3. Many tie-ins that help "bring the setting to life," like art books, computer games, miniatures, novels, and heck, even T-shirts and plush dolls.

And I'll admit that we barely got past #1, never seemed to manage the schedule of #2, and certainly never went as far as #3.

Hmm...
2. I think you are being unfair to yourself here. THS is still being supported. Two rules supplements last year. WoTC only released 4 books for Ebberon last year, and it's a newer setting.

3. Actually you did have a tie-in: the miniatures.

One might argue that with the relevant works of Egan, Barnes, McLeod, Swanwick et. al. there wouldn't need to be any THS tie-in novels. Of course, I'm extremely biased against tie-in books, so I'm probably not normal here. I think it's odd though that someone would complain about a lack of original settings when they are actually complaining about a lack of derivative fiction.

Edit: As far as "art" books go, I still fail to understand how I'm expected to spend 39.95 (or whatever) to get a book with nothing but reprints of pictures that I already have in the game supplements. Does anybody actually buy these things?

[Shrale]

I always got the impression from GURPS that the creative portion of the campaign (any campaign setting) was really up to the GM to fathom or create and the GURPS published material just helped you get there.

I remember trying to explain GURPS Space 3e as a GM Toolkit, and most people the posted after me (on another RPG bbs) went "HUH?" They didn't get it that the GM decides what's going to be in the campaign and then fleshes it out and the players follow (even if they know the proposed setting). They were only interested in "Vampires in Space" (or whatever was already put together) and the details about that, not the details of putting that type of campaign together.

So for my perceptions, GURPS was targeting people who wanted to build something ground-up and then get into after that. A few books were made around and already-built setting that was a consensus (boy I can't think of the word) to followers as a good setting to participate in (like cop shows or lawyer shows on TV).

In essence my take on GURPS is that it was aimed at GMs who were essentially writers/milieu-builders (or aspiring to be) and who already had a deep background in these areas due to their fiction-reading habits of their
lives. In some cases it was "fresh slate, make your own" in others (these being licensed properties) it was "this is already neat, let's jump in and go from there".


YMMV.


>

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by carllarson

THis could be detrimental, leaving SJG open to screams of bandwagoning and
an opinion of copycatting. Appearance would be that they couldn't do it themselves, so they drag along on the coattails of someone else. IMO, not a good way to go.

Huh? That is exactly what GURPS writers do, they either translate historical or some novel and put it into GURPS terms. Rarely do they create their own unique setting. GURPS Dungeon Fantasy is just the GURPS version of the genre. I think the bandwagon is the way to go for GURPS because they purposely don't do supported settings.

[Caleban]

Originally Posted by Kromm

So when I say we lack the resources to support multiple settings, I'm hardly exaggerating. Knowing what I know about my own line, I'd say that supporting even one setting in a "living," ongoing fashion would dry up all other support for the system.

This is interesting. I'd like to know how much support you feel a setting needs in order for it to be compelling and feel lived in. Even if the 1987 version of Forgotten Realms (in the gray box) had never seen another supplement it would still be one of my favorite Fantasy RPG settings.

[Caleban]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It simply isn't true that GURPS has never had a supported successful setting, (unless your definition of support or success is much more stringent than mine).
....
Caleban, how is THS not a "supported original setting" for GURPS?

There is perhaps an issue with how I framed this discussion. My OP wasn't intended to argue that a setting needed endless supplements to be supported.

Originally Posted by Caleban

Why doesn't GURPS have original-setting world books?

This is perhaps where the problems lies. I did not intended to imply that there weren't any original settings. It would probably be more accurate if I had said "more original-setting world books?". And even more accurate if I had added fantasy, but I didn't want to limit the discussion to just one genera for those who might feel a similar need in their personal favorite.

More back ground on my gaming style. I play mostly fantasy and semi historical settings. When I do GM SiFi it usually is in the not too distant future. I don't play much space opera or space faring. This is probably the reason why THS didn't jump to mind.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Caleban

This is interesting. I'd like to know how much support you feel a setting needs in order for it to be compelling and feel lived in. Even if the 1987 version of Forgotten Realms (in the gray box) had never seen another supplement it would still be one of my favorite Fantasy RPG settings.

Actually, as you're the OP, how much support do *you* feel a setting needs?

IIRC, the FR gray box had less than 200 pages of text. Compare to Banestorm at 240 pages, or Traveller (yes, licensed, but our setting in the Traveller universe was original) and Transhuman Space.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Caleban

More back ground on my gaming style. I play mostly fantasy and semi historical settings. When I do GM SiFi it usually is in the not too distant future. I don't play much space opera or space faring. This is probably the reason why THS didn't jump to mind.

Transhuman Space is near future, hard sf. It isn't skiffy space opera at all, perhaps you should take another look at the setting.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

The exception would be HERO Games, and they don't have a big setting either.

I hate to quibble, but they do. The Champions Universe has received a lot of support from HERO for a long time.