New Reality Seeds

[somecallmetim]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

I dislike the easy assumption that FDR was a fascist, but interesting. Vulcan-4 might involve a tropical caldera going off in 1912. Start a new and more brutal little Ice Age with large migrations out of Europe forced out by plagues and famine. Agriculture takes a brutal hit everywhere.

The local year is 1985, climatic conditions returned to normal only a decade or so ago. the tech level is only now getting to 7, but there a lot of pent up innovation in the pipe. European colonial empires fell and civilization came very close to collapse thus no one has been pushing any form of Cultural or Historical Pessimism. Several highly self-confident powers face each other. This world hasn't had a World War I...yet.

Cool idea.

I could totally buy 1985 having merely a TL 7 tech base, but TL 6 just having ended seems less likely. If only because a lot of TL 7 infrastructure and technology could make more efficient use of food sources, and that is likely to drive a lot of research. Of course, if all you haveare TL 7 trains and farms, with TL 6 electronics, private vehicles, and guns, I suppose it might as well be TL 6 from a typical PCs point of view. :)

With regards to FDR, I don't think he was a fascist, even in the made up timeline. The Great Depression was a real threat to the long trm survival of the US. FDR frequently overstepped his legal authority on a couple of occasions in our history and consider a court packing scheme to get his ideas through. I don't think he was power hungry. Like Lincoln he saw a mortal danger to the nation and focused on saving his country instead of paying attention to legalities.

In Vulcan-1, things were far worse. I mean, whole states were rendered uninhabitable. I think he probably saved the country by taking the actions he did, other wise there would probably be several nations east of the Mississippi. He died earlier due to stress, and more suddenly, and so never had a chance to guide the transition back to full democracy. I think his successors were beurocrats rather than ideologues, and were more or less content to keep things as they were, as long as recovery continued.

I think FDR is a highly admirable, if very complicated man,

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by somecallmetim

Cool idea.

I could totally buy 1985 having merely a TL 7 tech base, but TL 6 just having ended seems less likely.

I wanted a WWI with WWII tech levels and Victorian millitary tactics and worldviews.

If only because a lot of TL 7 infrastructure and technology could make more efficient use of food sources, and that is likely to drive a lot of research. Of course, if all you haveare TL 7 trains and farms, with TL 6 electronics, private vehicles, and guns, I suppose it might as well be TL 6 from a typical PCs point of view. :)

I really see the tech level being just a few years post TL7 with a few areas a bit advanced toward TL8. Late 1940's tech mainly with just a few bits of 1970's tech in prototype.

With regards to FDR, I don't think he was a fascist, even in the made up timeline. The Great Depression was a real threat to the long trm survival of the US. FDR frequently overstepped his legal authority on a couple of occasions in our history and consider a court packing scheme to get his ideas through. I don't think he was power hungry. Like Lincoln he saw a mortal danger to the nation and focused on saving his country instead of paying attention to legalities.

In Vulcan-1, things were far worse. I mean, whole states were rendered uninhabitable. I think he probably saved the country by taking the actions he did, other wise there would probably be several nations east of the Mississippi. He died earlier due to stress, and more suddenly, and so never had a chance to guide the transition back to full democracy. I think his successors were beurocrats rather than ideologues, and were more or less content to keep things as they were, as long as recovery continued.

I think FDR is a highly admirable, if very complicated man,

I agree with both points in the last sentence.

[Astromancer]

The Si Fi novel The Death of Grass has a grim little idea. It boils down to, the number of people the Earth can sustain has just droped. Picture if tomorrow the population the Earth's agriculture could feed period (not a Western style diet, just feed period) droped to Three billion. Less than half of what we have. Leave nations like the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Argentina, Australia, Uraguay, ect, food rich, and leave food importers in a truely nasty place.

There would be wars and revolutions. Many food secure nations would want other food secure nations to sacrifice their populations to provide food aid but would object to risking their own food security. It pretty much works that way now.

There would be no alliences. It would by every nation for itself and God against all.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

There would be no alliances. It would by every nation for itself and God against all.

I suspect that some nations where food production is concentrated in particular regions might fragment

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I suspect that some nations where food production is concentrated in particular regions might fragment

Highly possible, especially if outsiders are desperate to help. If for no other reason than access to the food.

Also, many rural communities tend to resent cities and are often jealous of their wealth.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Highly possible, especially if outsiders are desperate to help. If for no other reason than access to the food.

Also, many rural communities tend to resent cities and are often jealous of their wealth.

This split may come down to red state vs. blue state lines in the US.-- they line up fairly well with agriculture, particularly if you use the county color rather than the state.

And yeah, I can vouch for rural communities not liking the big city very much.

[PTTG]

Febuary, 1933. The soviet famine weakens the country, and the rising Fascists to the west and the Japanese to the east are wolves circling the door. Strong-armed Stalin promises greatness (and the power of an industrial nation), but purges the greatest minds of the generation out of paranoia.

Russia is a dangerous country. One high-ranking General gets the nerve to assassinate Stalin in a suicide attempt. The next several years are chaotic, but never quite open war; Nobody wants to invite the Germans in. Nonetheless, by 1937, a new Technologist party has established major control. Secular and scientific, the Party believes that science and industry will save Russia from the saber-rattling Nazis.

Their consolidation did not come too soon; in 1938, Hitler (emboldened by the USSR's apparent weakness) finally launches his campaign. His war is much the same as it was in our timeline, but for a surprising discovery: his occultists in India, searching for the Aryan homeland, discover a book of rituals and spells for binding the dead and conjuring spirits. Astonishingly, the dark magics seem to produce real effects- real messages from the beyond!

As the Eastern War begins, technologists begin to develop powerful new weapons (naturally based on recovered Tesla designs...), fighting mightily to establish a sufficient industrial base to use them against the Nazis. A self-reinforcing cycle of better material allowing better successes allowing more supplies advances, and soon Russian troops start wielding weird TL6+1 чудо-оружием (wonder-weapons) in small batches.

Soon, the secular technological forces of the USSR face off against the increasingly magic-dependent necromantic armies of Nazisim! As great forces begin to move in the heart Europe, hints of other powers appear. In Japan, the Emperor declines all visitors, apparently occupied with meditation and spiritual contact. In Great Britain, a vast migration of crows has occurred, leaving the mountaintops bare of any form of corvid. And in the depths of Big Bend tunnel, down in West Virginia, men say that you can hear hammering, ceaseless hammering of steel on steel, buried in the rock, getting closer every day...

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Soon, the secular technological forces of the USSR face off against the increasingly magic-dependent necromantic armies of Nazisim! As great forces begin to move in the Europe, hints of other powers appear. In Japan, the Emperor declines all visitors, apparently occupied with meditation and spiritual contact. In Great Britain, a vast migration of crows has occurred, leaving the mountaintops bare of any form of corvid. And in the depths of Big Bend tunnel, down in West Virginia, men say that you can hear hammering, ceaseless hammering of steel on steel, buried in the rock, getting closer every day...

Spooky. Interesting concept, this.

[Astromancer]

This recently discovered Q-6 world seems to have divereged in the early 1700's. There was a gentle steady warming from that period onwards and a surprisingly rapid rise in world sea levels. The local year is now 1937 sea level stabilised, about fourty years ago, at 60 meters higher than on most Earths. There was a mass migration to the USA from much of Western Europe. The British Monarchy relocated to Halifax and then to Toronto.

Many areas of Europe are in fact more inhabitable than before the sea level rise, but the migration seems to have been as much about apocolyptic fears as anything else. Russia and Germany vie for dominance of Europe the Anglo-Canadian Imperium seeks to rule the seas and Asia. The Japanese Empire casts hungry eyes at Australia, which is far greener and more fertile in this world than in most Earths.

The Anglo-Canadian seems to be trying to get Russia and Germany into a war that will be bad for both the Czar and the Kaiser. France and America are pushing for peace. Meanwhile the Anglo-Canadians seem to be ploting a consolidation of North America, Victoria II has several times stated that she wished she could undo the mistakes of George III and the treason's of George Washington.

Basically an alternate Game of Shodows plus the Canadians (who never get to be powerful villains) get the fun of being the evil empire. Please, remember villains aren't modest and self-effacing. Go over the top! Have fun Canada!

[ericthered]

This is actually a really solid reality seed. I like it. A few notes:

China is going to have some interesting changes: the historical capital in the north is completely flooded. The Qing have just taken over, and their home lands are on opposite side of the disaster area. This will either really boost chineese oceanic shipping activity, facilitate a rebellion against the Qing (who have much longer supply lines now)

You need Russia and France, not Russia and Germany. Or if you use Germany, use the Austrians instead of the Prussians (who lost almost everything). Not to mention Germany the nation didn't really exist until 1871. France should really prosper here. In the 1700's, France owned a large chunk of the Americas. With more aggressive European settlement, Louisianna may become its own prosperous holding. Oh, and France isn't loosing huge portions of land, so the power base is intact.

Once again aiding France, the British conquest of India has been thwarted. The East India Company was part of a coup that gave it control of Bengal, and they conquered the rest of India mostly with local manpower. Bengal is completely under water here, and France was close in the running for being the power that controlled India.

Were are we going to put the Dutch? (who loose everything and quickly). do they maintain control of Indonesia? Do they emigrate en mass to South Africa much as the English go to Canada?

I love these questions -- this really rearranges the map, but in a way that still is an echo of what we know.