New Reality Seeds

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

I wonder if the British would get involved, and on which side. If Grant can avoid directly offending them too much, they might ally with the USA, which could lead to Russia (who held Alaska until 1867, OTL) siding with the French & Spanish. This could lead to another 'early WWI' scenario.

This sounds like an excellent situation for Britain to stay out of. The USA is helpfully suppressing a couple of worryingly ambitious continental European powers, while doubtless selling us cotton for arms. But we don’t want the USA getting too strong, because that could turn into a nuisance — and oh look, they’re getting bogged down in bush wars all the way through Latin America. And there’s no sense in stirring up the Czar; recent experience shows that just gets messy. Let’s sit this one out, carry on buying cotton from the Americans and wine from France, and offer to play honest broker when they’ve worn themselves out, right chaps?

[AlexanderHowl]

In Tejas-5, the British Empire joined the Mexican War on the side of Mexico due to concerns about the growing power of the USA and the threats to its Canadian possessions (as well as concerns about US penetration into Oregon). With the British Empire seizing US ships, blockading US ports, and providing weapons and training to Mexican troops, the US suffered loss and privation, eventually resulting in the defeat of the USA and the Republic of Texas and the annexation of the Republic of Texas back into Mexico. It is now twenty years later, and British investment in Mexico since the Mexican War has made Mexico a powerful counterbalance to the USA. With its expansion towards the Pacific blocked by the British Empire and Mexico, the USA is stuck as a secondary power, incapable of dealing with a powerful and persistent Native American insurgency in the West supported by the British and the Mexicans.

[Apollonian]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In Tejas-5, the British Empire joined the Mexican War on the side of Mexico due to concerns about the growing power of the USA and the threats to its Canadian possessions (as well as concerns about US penetration into Oregon). With the British Empire seizing US ships, blockading US ports, and providing weapons and training to Mexican troops, the US suffered loss and privation, eventually resulting in the defeat of the USA and the Republic of Texas and the annexation of the Republic of Texas back into Mexico. It is now twenty years later, and British investment in Mexico since the Mexican War has made Mexico a powerful counterbalance to the USA. With its expansion towards the Pacific blocked by the British Empire and Mexico, the USA is stuck as a secondary power, incapable of dealing with a powerful and persistent Native American insurgency in the West supported by the British and the Mexicans.

Seems like you're burying the lede a bit there: what happens on the slavery question in a USA both defeated in its Pacific expansion and humiliated?

Also, there's a decent chance that Britain annexes California to satisfy Mexican debts to UK creditors - since the local Californios were already dissatisfied with the incompetent Mexican government, and indeed discussing the options of independence or UK annexation, this might go over surprisingly smoothly. And then, a few years later, you've got the UK dealing with the California gold rush. It'd be quite a different Wild West.

Another knock-on effect: What happens to Russian Alaska? With the US taken down a peg and having no Pacific presence, the Tsar no longer has a convenient buyer, and the colony's even more vulnerable to the UK - Russia's great rival.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In Tejas-5, the British Empire joined the Mexican War on the side of Mexico due to concerns about the growing power of the USA and the threats to its Canadian possessions (as well as concerns about US penetration into Oregon). With the British Empire seizing US ships, blockading US ports, and providing weapons and training to Mexican troops, the US suffered loss and privation, eventually resulting in the defeat of the USA and the Republic of Texas and the annexation of the Republic of Texas back into Mexico. It is now twenty years later, and British investment in Mexico since the Mexican War has made Mexico a powerful counterbalance to the USA. With its expansion towards the Pacific blocked by the British Empire and Mexico, the USA is stuck as a secondary power, incapable of dealing with a powerful and persistent Native American insurgency in the West supported by the British and the Mexicans.

Another problem of the setting is that the 19th century USA was a net exporter of food. The "Hungry Forties" weren't a time that Britain could risk America not being willing to export food to them. Also America was industrializing between 1840 and 1860. By 1865 Mexico, simply couldn't have industrialized. They lacked the transport infrastructure, they lacked navigatable rivers, and their agriculture couldn't have paid for those things. British investment would have taken decades to have gotten Mexico industrialized. The main thing Britain would have won is a ally for any enemy of Britain coming down the pike.

Eventually, the Kaiser gets and American ally. And fear of Britain means an American ally with a large and agressive navy.

[Astromancer]

Try this one...

Right after the ACW, the USA is hit by a grain blight. America and Canada have enough grain to feed themselves, but almost nothing to export. The blight hits Australia, New Zealand, Europe from Ireland to Siberia, and most of Asia. Europe is hit with the worst famine since the 1300s.

Ten years of famine end in 1876. America and Canada export vast supplies of grain to Europe. But Europe is changed, security equals grain supplies. Farmers get special deals from everyone. People are land-hungry and ready to fight to control the land.

More later I must go now. But remember to sing "The Farmer is the man who feeds them all."

[YankeeGamer]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this one...

On this Q7 low manna parallel Isabella II had the advantage of the Infante Carlos being killed in a riding accident in 1832. This meant the Carlist Wars never happened for lack of the right figureheads at the right time. This meant that when Isabella wanted to reassert Spanish power in the new world started with a stronger base.

Once the American Civil War started Spain was ready to strike. With Napoleon II as an ally Mexico was fully conquered and the Dominican Restoration War won. With Maximlian securely on the throne of Mexico and Lincoln dead in April 1865, it looked like the Monroe Doctrine was dead. Certainly Andrew Johnson was no threat. But now America has elected General Grant president.

With stunning speed, the US has built a new navy, a better Iron Clad navy than either Spain or France has.

Basically, Grant, a far tougher more serious figure than most people understand, leading America against, Napoleon II, Isabella II, and Maximilian I, to free Latin America. Remember, Grant was a radical and the ACW was a great radical victory. Napoleon II and Isabella II have made themselves both scary and obnoxious to America, which has moved American politics in a radical direction. Grant is making use of this to promote Racial Equality and many other left-wing causes. The Lost Cause is now linked to hostile foreign reactionaries. Grant's war is reuniting the Union in a fight for survival against invaders.

This has caused those Confederates who can't reconcile themselves to an America with full civil rights for all to go and offer their services to France and Spain.

Think of it as the ACW II fought from the deserts of Mexico to Tierra del Fuego.

Note: Grant has integrated the Army and vast numbers of Latin American rebels have joined the American Army and Navy.

I wonder if Confederates captured in arms against the Unites States in the service of a foreign power will be tried for treason this time through?

[TGLS]

SDI
Quantum 6, 2004
America faces down the combined forces of literally everyone else (barring Canada, which has declared neutrality) following the announcement that they have nearly completed their satellite defense network.

[Kymage]

Originally Posted by TGLS

SDI
Quantum 6, 2004
America faces down the combined forces of literally everyone else (barring Canada, which has declared neutrality) following the announcement that they have nearly completed their satellite defense network.

Fortress America?

[TGLS]

Yeah, pretty much

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by YankeeGamer

I wonder if Confederates captured in arms against the Unites States in the service of a foreign power will be tried for treason this time through?

Grant was decent and merciful, but he knew when to cut his losses.