New Reality Seeds

[Astromancer]

Try this idea. Several key Russian diplomats and Foreign Ministers pushed the idea of allying France (with Capital), Germany (with Technology), and Russia (with resources), into a power system that would dominate Europe and the World. Both nationalistic bigotries, of several kinds held by different players, and the simple fact that Austria was always left out, sank the idea.

But get this alliance together and it would be awesomely strong. Let the Russo-Franco-German alliance be the good guys, Austrian sour grapes, Ottoman fear of absorption into a colonial Empire, and Britain, fearful of any power or alliance dominating the European land mass, make them the bad guys, and Japan and America trying to stay neutral. British domination of the seas with Austria and the Ottomans being able to close the Dardanelles would give the game a little balance. Maybe Japan, threatening the Russian East is also needed.

Anyway, You'd have a great spy game. Place to taste in the late 19th or early 20th centuries. Trying to lure in America would be a major game within the game. The Irish could be the wild card here. If the Irish-Americans get bitter enough, their politics work against Britain.

Intrigue, treachery, politics, and style.

[PTTG]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Putin, who is a Plutocratic oligarch, who be the kind of guy Centrum would push. then they'd wait for him to die and take over from the shadows.

That's a scary thought. Does that mean that Bernie Sanders was from Homeline?

[warellis]

Originally Posted by PTTG

That's a scary thought. Does that mean that Bernie Sanders was from Homeline?

Considering how hard he and Jeremy Corbyn supported and expressed admiration for Hugo Chavez despite knowing his authoritarianism and his poor economic policies, probably not.

I would assume they're all from Centrum. :P

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this idea. Several key Russian diplomats and Foreign Ministers pushed the idea of allying France (with Capital), Germany (with Technology), and Russia (with resources), into a power system that would dominate Europe and the World. Both nationalistic bigotries, of several kinds held by different players, and the simple fact that Austria was always left out, sank the idea.

But get this alliance together and it would be awesomely strong. Let the Russo-Franco-German alliance be the good guys, Austrian sour grapes, Ottoman fear of absorption into a colonial Empire, and Britain, fearful of any power or alliance dominating the European land mass, make them the bad guys, and Japan and America trying to stay neutral. British domination of the seas with Austria and the Ottomans being able to close the Dardanelles would give the game a little balance. Maybe Japan, threatening the Russian East is also needed.

Anyway, You'd have a great spy game. Place to taste in the late 19th or early 20th centuries. Trying to lure in America would be a major game within the game. The Irish could be the wild card here. If the Irish-Americans get bitter enough, their politics work against Britain.

Intrigue, treachery, politics, and style.

Maybe. It reminds me of the old joke about Canada. We were settled by the French, conquered by the British and lived next door to the Americans, so we could have had it all: British politics, French culture and American know-how. What we got was British know-how, French politics and American culture.

Pessimistically, you’re as likely to end up with French technology, German resources and Russian capital. On the other hand, you’re tying together the actual countries, so you might do better than that. I suspect that the best outcome that can be achieved will look more like French resources, German capital and Russian technology. It’s not a terrible combination but it’s not that great, either.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by PTTG

That's a scary thought. Does that mean that Bernie Sanders was from Homeline?

He has that vibe. But he could be Cabal in your game, he was a charmer. ;-)

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by warellis

Considering how hard he and Jeremy Corbyn supported and expressed admiration for Hugo Chavez despite knowing his authoritarianism and his poor economic policies, probably not.

I would assume they're all from Centrum. :P

Let's not get too political, it could get the thread locked. But any politician could be got at by any outworld faction. If nothing else they could mind control or replace them.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Maybe. It reminds me of the old joke about Canada. We were settled by the French, conquered by the British and lived next door to the Americans, so we could have had it all: British politics, French culture and American know-how. What we got was British know-how, French politics and American culture.

Pessimistically, you’re as likely to end up with French technology, German resources and Russian capital. On the other hand, you’re tying together the actual countries, so you might do better than that. I suspect that the best outcome that can be achieved will look more like French resources, German capital and Russian technology. It’s not a terrible combination but it’s not that great, either.

The main point would be radically realigned Great Power struggle.

[PTTG]

Maple timelines are kept a little bit quiet by IU. It's not that they don't like Maples, it's just that, well, some of them are nice places to get a little R&R, and they don't want the word getting out.

Maple-1 started with a small divergence around 1775. As a consequence of a letter not arriving in the right place at the right time, it ultimately proved impossible for the Continental Congress to attain the support of the South for a formal declaration. Over the next few years, George Washington, his army, and most of the northern leadership of the Congress was caught and forced to turn or hang.

However, the drive for independence remained in the New World. It took twenty years and a new generation for the Northern colonies to make political movements towards the Canadian colonies -- helped, perhaps, by Benjamin Franklin and his sons living in exile in France -- but ultimately some of the most populated and wealthy parts of New England thought of themselves as part of a different and more northerly people.

A report not unlike the Durham Report, albeit released several years earlier, had much the same conclusion, however as the colonies south of Maryland were a separate province the United Province of America.

In 1834, (a year later than Homeline), Great Britain banned slavery over the objections of the UPoA. The War of American Secession, also known as the War of British Aggression in the UPoA, was costly and bloody. Having already lost a number of skilled commanders and hardened troops in putting down the war of 1775, their military tradition simply wasn't as developed as the south's. In the end, British forces simply let the UPoA declare independence as the Confederation of American States.

The UPoC continued to expand westward even as the CAS stumbled into the Caribbean themselves. While Canada remained stable and productive, CAS suffered several internal conflicts as their central government proved too weak to control the fractious states. Around 1890, declining profitability in slave produced goods caused a catastrophic decline in the already abysmal care shown to slaves. Nationwide slave rebellions ultimately forced an end to mass slavery, but no formal nationwide ban exists, and anyone "descended from a slave" is treated as a second-class citizen at best.

In the midwest, Canada found itself using native groups and the nation of Utah as buffer states with CAS. British Columbia extends south to the border of Mexico, which in this timeline is somewhere in Northern California.

I'm not sure what point in history to set this.

Maple-2 is a little different, and perhaps most deserving of the name. In this timeline, a variant of Acer saccharum grows with unusual properties. There, the sap is something of a wonder-drug, curing most ills (a single dose provides at 1d of healing almost instantly and +5 to any HT rolls related to resisting disease or healing injury). Men given a taste of Acer saccharum sanitatum are super-soldiers, and the curative powers not only protected the native nations from European plagues, but ensured that those who regularly consumed the stuff lived ten years longer than even the healthiest colonists.

Canada, here, is closely allied with the first nations of the continent; they are equal participants in the governance of the nation, in part because colonists who weren't able to cooperate didn't make it through the first winter....

Maple-3 is believed to be a myth parallel. As of 2014, Canada and its protectorates represent the majority of humanity. Canada extended from Alaska to Florida and from Quebec to Baja by 1939. After the Nazi invasion of Great Britain, Canada became the defacto leadership of the commonwealth, and eventually retook Europe and established a series of protectorates under Canadian oversight. At the same time, Canada fought Japan in the pacific and eventually pacified it as well.

The only threatening nations not under Canadian dominion are the Soviet Union, which is collapsing under its bureaucratic weight, and Mao-dynasty China, which tries to survive by courting both sides. Brazil is a strengthening nation, of course, and thanks to stable international trade many nations in Africa are also rapidly growing, but outside of a few ideological holdouts, most everyone feels they have much more to gain by working with Canada rather than against it.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by PTTG

In 1834, (a year later than Homeline), Great Britain banned slavery over the objections of the UPoA. The War of American Secession, also known as the War of British Aggression in the UPoA, was costly and bloody. Having already lost a number of skilled commanders and hardened troops in putting down the war of 1775, their military tradition simply wasn't as developed as the south's. In the end, British forces simply let the UPoA declare independence as the Confederation of American States.

This needs a bit of revision. Between 1792 and 1815, the British had fought the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars, resulting in a highly developed military, and had been fighting smaller colonial wars since then.

[PTTG]

Originally Posted by johndallman

This needs a bit of revision. Between 1792 and 1815, the British had fought the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars, resulting in a highly developed military, and had been fighting smaller colonial wars since then.

Good point. Perhaps the British were war-weary by this point, or else were involved in a different war caused or exacerbated by the butterfly effect.

Whatever the reason, they counted mainly on the colonial forces who had less direct face on the conflict. Perhaps Southerners represented a larger contingent of the men taken off to fight in those wars, and so they were trained while Northern conscripts were still green.