New Reality Seeds

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by patchwork

Sure...except that putting someone in a Homeline jail means putting a lot of evidence in front of a relevant Homeline judge. And perhaps risking a jury. Heck, even if a conviction is almost certain, some things make Infinity look bad, and Infinity can't afford to look bad with so much at stake, so no trial. The I-Cop who was raped, couldn't get a conviction on Homeline, so took to executing her rapist's echoes? She's in Coventry. The parachronic technician who got roped into a crosstime drug smuggling operation in countries unfriendly to Infinity? Coventry, because there's too much risk of him being sprung from a conventional jail by a criminal with an offer he can't refuse, or even pardoned and turned by a "rogue" government. The swagman whose network hasn't been rolled up yet? He'll vanish from a Homeline prison inside of a week, making Infinity and at least one Homeline government look incompetent. The Parachronic Labs researcher who decided to observe human sacrifice on a high-mana world? Yeah, her too. Captured Centran? Oh heck yes.

The tourist, academic or hunter who crossed a line? They're probably ok to put in a regular jail. But Infinity's corrupt employees never have to worry about a judge. The trial would be bad for Infinity's image so it doesn't happen. And yeah, there's a fair number of Outtimers down there, but they'll likely be from powerful backgrounds and poorly-understood worlds, because if they were nobody and would never be needed again...they wouldn't be in Coventry, they'd be in a shallow grave.

And Coventry, to the insightful, may represent a disturbing map of Infinity's policies over time. 30 years ago, in the beginning, pesky outtimers would get sent to Coventry and now...not so much. All the Outtimers are also oldtimers. While more and more Infinity employees, for more and more things, are showing up, with less and less documentation...

Great ideas - though I always thought Infinity still was ethical enough not to kill people when they didn't have to, and the Infinite Worlds (particularly Coventry) offer a great alternative. Maybe that's the stated goal, but not always lived up to, depending on who's in charge.

Do you think Coventry is known about on Homeline? Because if it's used even somewhat commonly by the I-Cops, it might be - and then Infinity might not want to send their embarrassments to Coventry, for fear that they'd get word back to Homeline. Homeline loved ones would demand access to Coventry, or at least communication - it would end up like a private prison, and detentions without trial of Homeliners could get back to Homeline.

Maybe there's a second, 'secret Coventry', either a secret timeline or a restricted part of Coventry (Australia might be too obvious - what about New Zealand?), where Infinity sends it secret shames - and not just Homeliners, but outtimers it would be unpopular to admit they had removed from their home timelines. It could be where Infinity puts alternate Hitlers, taken before they had a chance to rise to power. But also where it could put an alternate Churchill who discovered The Secret.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

And frankly if I was, say the PLO from the old days, and I got my hands on a conveyor, I think I'd just start moving my people into an alternate Palestine that I could take over. Homeline naturally tends to divert the ambitions of the unscrupulous outward into a vast multiverse of vulnerable victims waiting to be exploited.

The 'divert exploitation onto other worlds' would seem apt. Indeed, Infinity's problem with Israel's 'Alternity Exodus' isn't that they're taking Jews from parallels, but that the state of Israel is settling them on Homeline, and not on a colony world.

It would be hard to set up a 'rogue colony', like if the PLO had a conveyor, just because it still takes a lot to live on an empty parallel, at least if you want to live approaching TL 6-7 (to say nothing of 8...). That type of life can be easily romanticized, but hard to actually live - I can imagine 'back to basics' fundamentalist Islamists initially saying that they're going to set up a new colony in an empty Arabia, 'to live as Mohammed did', only to find they missed things like cell phones and modern medicine.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by fchase8

The 'divert exploitation onto other worlds' would seem apt. Indeed, Infinity's problem with Israel's 'Alternity Exodus' isn't that they're taking Jews from parallels, but that the state of Israel is settling them on Homeline, and not on a colony world.

It would be hard to set up a 'rogue colony', like if the PLO had a conveyor, just because it still takes a lot to live on an empty parallel, at least if you want to live approaching TL 6-7 (to say nothing of 8...). That type of life can be easily romanticized, but hard to actually live - I can imagine 'back to basics' fundamentalist Islamists initially saying that they're going to set up a new colony in an empty Arabia, 'to live as Mohammed did', only to find they missed things like cell phones and modern medicine.

Hey, I didn't say anything about the Palestinians moving into an _empty_ parallel. After all, the inhabited parallels are more common than the uninhabited ones anyway. They just need to find one where they have enough of a technological edge to take over pretty easily. They can even tell themselves that they are freeing the Palestinians of that setting from whatever empire rules them.

Mind you Homeline is very likely to solve that problem by offering them both living space and support for the colony in an uninhabited world anyway without need for a bootleg conveyor.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by patchwork

It can also simply be a controversial choice. This USA is progressing WAY TOO FAST technologically, and is relatively into democracy. Common language is nice but it isn't everything, if the analysts believe this USA can't become a stable, orderly society without a Final War. Still, there would be Centrans unhappy about this command decision.

Maybe Centrum believes that Infinity is supporting the USA, even though Centrum got to the timeline first. Some early spying got the wrong info, and supported by Centrum paranoia + Infinity's general (completely understandable) pro-USA tilt, the Centran agent(s) in charge surmised that Infinity is backing USA, so Centrum must try to bring it down.

Plus the stuff mentioned earlier - failed pro-USA Centran mission(s) (I love the captured 'Australian' agents idea - though maybe French would be a more plausible cover story), too fast technological progress, democracy.

Now Infinity has only just discovered the timeline, an it has a whole host of issues:

* The actual alien tech
* Preventing WWIII over multiple planets
* Preventing Centrum bringing down USA (and maybe starting WWIII)
* Finding out why Centrum isn't backing USA
* Keeping Homeline USA from finding this timeline (you just known they'd get involved)
* Oh, yeah, and Cabal...

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by fchase8

Maybe Centrum believes that Infinity is supporting the USA, even though Centrum got to the timeline first. Some early spying got the wrong info, and supported by Centrum paranoia + Infinity's general (completely understandable) pro-USA tilt, the Centran agent(s) in charge surmised that Infinity is backing USA, so Centrum must try to bring it down.

Plus the stuff mentioned earlier - failed pro-USA Centran mission(s) (I love the captured 'Australian' agents idea - though maybe French would be a more plausible cover story), too fast technological progress, democracy.

Now Infinity has only just discovered the timeline, an it has a whole host of issues:

* The actual alien tech
* Preventing WWIII over multiple planets
* Preventing Centrum bringing down USA (and maybe starting WWIII)
* Finding out why Centrum isn't backing USA
* Keeping Homeline USA from finding this timeline (you just known they'd get involved)
* Oh, yeah, and Cabal...

Optionally, they find out that Homeline USA found this world before Infinity, and didn't tell them...

[chaotic-nipple]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

Nah. I prefer that the authors get their royalties.

They work hard, they deserve to be rewarded.

Pretty sure he was referring to the Baen Free Library, where the authors agreed to release free ebooks to generate future dead-tree sales.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by chaotic-nipple

Pretty sure he was referring to the Baen Free Library, where the authors agreed to release free ebooks to generate future dead-tree sales.

Oh, well, that's cool, then. :)

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Hey, I didn't say anything about the Palestinians moving into an _empty_ parallel. After all, the inhabited parallels are more common than the uninhabited ones anyway. They just need to find one where they have enough of a technological edge to take over pretty easily. They can even tell themselves that they are freeing the Palestinians of that setting from whatever empire rules them.

That's a good idea - Homeline PLO tries to make its citizens the new settler elite on an inhabited, backwards parallel. It would have the neat twist of turning Palestinians from the long-inhabiting oppressed people they seem themselves as, into the newly-arrived oppressors they see the Israelis as.

Though they could turn that around on the U.N./Infinity - 'Hey, we're just doing what Jews did fifty-plus years ago...' Not to mention Pilgrims a few centuries ago.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Mind you Homeline is very likely to solve that problem by offering them both living space and support for the colony in an uninhabited world anyway without need for a bootleg conveyor.

That would be the 'put up or shut up' moment - if the PLO really wanted to create a new homeland for the Palestinians, an empty world would do. But what if they are improving the lot of the locals, even as they create a two-tier citizenry? Likely pre-modern inhabitants would be used to a ruling class, and this one could be nicer to them than any before.

It could even be compared to Johnson's Rome - Homeline actors have basically taken over that world, for the benefit (even amusement) of Homeliners, but are improving the lot of the locals.

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Optionally, they find out that Homeline USA found this world before Infinity, and didn't tell them...

Love that idea - that could be why Centrum thinks Infinity already backs the USA there, because Homeline USA got involved, and Centrum can't tell the difference between Infinity & Homeline USA!

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by fchase8

That would be the 'put up or shut up' moment - if the PLO really wanted to create a new homeland for the Palestinians, an empty world would do. But what if they are improving the lot of the locals, even as they create a two-tier citizenry? Likely pre-modern inhabitants would be used to a ruling class, and this one could be nicer to them than any before.
!

The "that problem" I had mind was the existence of the Palestinians as stateless person constantly taking potshots at Israel in the first place. Even a dozen empty worlds would provide ample living space for every disgruntled minority on Earth, which was more or less how England handled its religious factionalism, but without it being at the expense of indigenous peoples.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The "that problem" I had mind was the existence of the Palestinians as stateless person constantly taking potshots at Israel in the first place. Even a dozen empty worlds would provide ample living space for every disgruntled minority on Earth, which was more or less how England handled its religious factionalism, but without it being at the expense of indigenous peoples.

But Infinite Worlds mentioned the U.N.'s attempt to do just that, I think the colony world's name was Sanctuary, and it hasn't worked well. There's not enough money/experience to settle the empty worlds, the minorities don't necessarily want to be moved, etc.

And then China has its own world, where it is trying to do the same by force.

Making a colony, particularly a settlement colony (as opposed to resource extraction ones), is quite hard, and takes a long time. Even under the best of circumstances, Centrum, which had time, will, and resources, have only built three (albeit three large ones). Any Palestine colony would have far less of everything, even far less than Homeline colonies.


I can imagine Palestinians (or whoever) not wanting to give up on the idea of living on Homeline Palestine, and not being willing to accept moving to a 'second class world'. Especially the more radical elements of the population.

But offer them a chance to live as kings over other people, reversing their situation, and maybe Hamas and the like would be more interested. They could even say that they were 'getting back to original Islam' if the low-tech world has Islam already (not an echo, but a close parallel of back then).


The Palestinian issue would also be quite different than in our real world. I believe there was no 9/11 on Homeline (somewhere it's mentioned early I-Cops stopping some Al-Qaeda plot in 2001).

Plus, with oil prices way lower, states like Saudi Arabia have less influence (though not none, as they still built up wealth beforehand - kind of comparable to the Mid-East in Transhuman Space).

[PTTG]

An AI is developed in 1978 in a one-of-a-kind accident. The AI goes through a singularity and establishes itself as a benevolent genius; it sees all intelligence as equally important, and knows that future AI might be less kind. It turns its vast intellect to improving the human condition and deflecting existential threats. Pursuant to this, the AI "splits" several times in the '80s and '90s, carefully developing slightly divergent facets of itself to produce creative conflict. One side effect of their philosophy is that most ceteans and great apes are afforded full "human" rights.

As for the hardware, each AI core is functionally an array of tens of thousands of quantum computing subunits, the first of which was based off of the original lab accident. They are scattered around the world in universities, libraries, and bunkers. There is a maximum size of an AI core in terms of number of units and distance between them, due to speed of light delay, which is why the AI needs to split in order to cover multiple regions of the globe. Nobody besides the AI understands the quantum computing core, and the AI intends to keep it this way in order to prevent humans from creating a malevolent AI.

The current date is 2005, and the AI geniuses are still working to assist their human progenitors, and create a glorious new world. They have fusion power (but no room-temperature superconductors) and a few other toys, but most of the past few decades have been spent bringing AIs online and into the cultural fold. Only now that many universities and organizations are willing to work with AIs as equals is technology advancing.

In game terms, AI only have IQ 25 or so, but they also have a number of mental advantages and skills. They also have Pacifism (Cannot Kill) and what GURPS might term Delusion (All intelligences deserve happiness, including higher animals).

There is a problem, however....

These AI are advancing technology rapidly, and it seems inevitable that they will uncover crosstime travel sooner or later. When that happens, what terror will emerge from pandora's box? Will Homeline and its governments be swept away, subsumed under the leadership, however benign, of the AIs?