New Reality Seeds

[patchwork]

Originally Posted by PTTG

He seemed pretty busy during his life. What would he have gotten up to with more time?

Its more a matter of what stupidities he would have avoided (possibly replaced with novel and ingenious stupidities). Give him 10 or 15 more years, and Louis XIII comes to the throne as a young man instead of having his father murdered when he was 7 and then having to overthrow his regent by force at age 20. Instead, he merely grows up in a poisonous court where his mother and his father's consort hate each other and keep backstabbing each other's favorites but Henri refuses to send either of them away. Probably a very different man. Henri would have refused to dismiss his right hand Sully, a Protestant, and be generally uninterested in oppressing Protestants (which, of course, is why Catholic zealots kept trying to kill him). Marriage alliances are scrambled - Henri would never have forgiven the Habsburgs enough to permit his son and daughter to marry them, which means closer ties with Savoy and the British Isles, and possibly the Dutch Oranges and Swedish Vasas. He would not have called the Estates General in 1615, which may mean no one thinks to or wants to in 1789 (in that case, the last one would have been called in 1588 and resulted in a coup and murder). Henri sponsored three voyages to the New World and claimed Canada; perhaps he takes more interest in it if he lives. So...10 more years for Henri is looking suspiciously Centrumish; Anglo-French alliance with earlier expansion and less democracy, perhaps.

[fchase8]

Henry IV is a rather classic 'would have been/could have been' leader, potentially uniting France during the religious wars there. That includes a relatively liberal view on religious tolerance, allowing for Protestants.

If one wanted to come up with a utopian-ish 'Pax France', Henry IV would be a good way to start. Have him be the foundation figure in France that Elizabeth was in England in Homeline history; have France be the open state that succeeded imperial Spain to not only lead colonialism but discover industralization and capitalism. Basically, have France do what England did, but even better.

This would abort Louis XIV France, and all of the Sun King/Versailles expensive grandeur - terrible for tourist sites and furniture design, but better for France (and the world). Maybe a Henry-France could accept Protestantism in England, Netherlands, and Germany (as long as they made money).

Originally Posted by patchwork

Henri sponsored three voyages to the New World and claimed Canada; perhaps he takes more interest in it if he lives.

That's a good potential for a serious French America.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by fchase8

In general, the Americas are a great place to have offshoot settler societies develop on their own. Usually it's into a rather idealized version - take the Roman revival of the Hesperides on Roma Aeterna, or the neo-Vikings of Midgard.

Speaking of that: Edgar the Ætheling, legitimate heir to the throne of England after the death of Harold II, meets a Northman in the late 1060s, who tells him of Vinland. Edgar and a few other Saxon nobles sail there on a Norse vessel, and then return to England to gather settlers, founding a nation called New Engla-land in what we know as New England. Not all of the English are willing to travel that far, but they get enough to form viable cities and villages, and a number of Celts soon follow them.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by PTTG

He seemed pretty busy during his life. What would he have gotten up to with more time?

According to contemporary conspiracy theorists EVERTHING!!! The guy seemed to freak out a certain kind of mind. It is what got him killed after all. Thus it fits to do what you like with Henry, everybody at the time did. And furthermore he himself did what he, and they it is said, liked with thousands of young and smugly satisfied ladies. At least that is the salacious and oft repeated rumor.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by fchase8

Brazil is a great place to have as a transplant that develops on its own. Alternate Earths mentions this concept, how the United States [on Homeline] became sort of the ideas of The Enlightment/British parliamentary democracy given its own room to grow. In Shikaku-Mon, the Empire of Brazil was cosmopolitan pre-Inquisition Iberia given its own room to grow.

I wish there was more Brazil in general in the Infinite Worlds setting, as it provides a great setting where anything is possible. I think it gets overshadowed by U.S.A./North America.

In general, the Americas are a great place to have offshoot settler societies develop on their own. Usually it's into a rather idealized version - take the Roman revival of the Hesperides on Roma Aeterna, or the neo-Vikings of Midgard. Because Old World diseases would wipe out much of the native population of the New World, it leaves a so-called 'blank canvas' upon which to build a new society (one could even include the actually American industrial Aztec Empire of Ezcalli as an idealized version of a historical nation/culture).

To a much lesser extent, this can also be done on Australia (but can it be done on New Zealand?...) - that is basically how Centrum began.

Yes it can be done in New Zealand, but the size is a limit. As for Brazil, remember tropical climates breed tropical diseases. So you need away around that limit. But look at the countries to the south. A group of German townsmen applied to settle in what later became Argentina. Charles V was willing but the Castilian nobles freaked out. If the Castilians hadn't heard until later, might their be a powerful Silberland speaking German on the Rio de Platta?

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by patchwork

Its more a matter of what stupidities he would have avoided (possibly replaced with novel and ingenious stupidities). Give him 10 or 15 more years, and Louis XIII comes to the throne as a young man instead of having his father murdered when he was 7 and then having to overthrow his regent by force at age 20. Instead, he merely grows up in a poisonous court where his mother and his father's consort hate each other and keep backstabbing each other's favorites but Henri refuses to send either of them away. Probably a very different man. Henri would have refused to dismiss his right hand Sully, a Protestant, and be generally uninterested in oppressing Protestants (which, of course, is why Catholic zealots kept trying to kill him). Marriage alliances are scrambled - Henri would never have forgiven the Habsburgs enough to permit his son and daughter to marry them, which means closer ties with Savoy and the British Isles, and possibly the Dutch Oranges and Swedish Vasas. He would not have called the Estates General in 1615, which may mean no one thinks to or wants to in 1789 (in that case, the last one would have been called in 1588 and resulted in a coup and murder). Henri sponsored three voyages to the New World and claimed Canada; perhaps he takes more interest in it if he lives. So...10 more years for Henri is looking suspiciously Centrumish; Anglo-French alliance with earlier expansion and less democracy, perhaps.

A point I hadn't thought of I admit.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Speaking of that: Edgar the Ætheling, legitimate heir to the throne of England after the death of Harold II, meets a Northman in the late 1060s, who tells him of Vinland. Edgar and a few other Saxon nobles sail there on a Norse vessel, and then return to England to gather settlers, founding a nation called New Engla-land in what we know as New England. Not all of the English are willing to travel that far, but they get enough to form viable cities and villages, and a number of Celts soon follow them.

You could have a truly fun frontier with knights and Indians. Castles on the Hudson and in the Rockies. Picture Cromwell and his Cherokee Roundheads. Or the vast Irish kingdoms of the Southern Appalachians.

[Astromancer]

People fleeing from a Hell World into what they think is the past, it is really just an Echo, could set up an interesting set of surprises.

Try a group fleeing a corporate dominated dying Earth. They land in San Francisco in the 1880's. They introduce technologies to speed economic development in the USA (In their history America was dominated by agrarian cultural idealists and stayed out of their world's WWI, leading an Anglo-Germanic corporate world dominance). By 1900 in this world, the USA is close to TL7 and the rest of the western world is a few years behind. The technology is of course poorly integrated into society as a whole, but there is an incredible economic boom going on. Just tracing down who did what and why would be a huge hassle.

Mix in the Cabal and/or Centrum and the mess gets truly vast.

And that is just one limited possibility.

Try a similar scenario with Song China or late Republican Rome.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Yes it can be done in New Zealand, but the size is a limit.

In Shikaku-Mon, Japanese Aoterra (New Zealand) was more populous than Nieuw Holland (Australia). While Homeline New Zealand has a relatively low population, there is a good deal of room (enough to fit in six Tolkien movies...). Also for Australia - Terraustralis on Centrum was more densely settled than on Homeline (also begun earlier).

Originally Posted by Astromancer

As for Brazil, remember tropical climates breed tropical diseases. So you need away around that limit. But look at the countries to the south. A group of German townsmen applied to settle in what later became Argentina. Charles V was willing but the Castilian nobles freaked out. If the Castilians hadn't heard until later, might their be a powerful Silberland speaking German on the Rio de Platta?

That's a good point about the tropical climate being a limiting factor, to focus on a transplant community in the Rio de la Plata area. Unfortunately that region is relatively distant from Europe (or most places). It would be a lot harder to keep up a steady stream of colonists, at least compared to eastern North America. The same issue holds true for Australia.

Brazil could be an interesting place to have a transplanted tropical culture, like West African or Indian. Imagine would-be conquistadors encountering a flourishing African culture in South America. It could be rich with Brazilian mineral and agricultural wealth, and while it would have forestalled race-based slavery, could have its own hierarchy to keep the plantations and mines working.


Brazil or Australia could have some Atlantean refugees.

Or what about an alien race, on the run in broken-down spaceships, find Earth in their desperate search for a life-supporting planet, some time in the first millennium A.D.? They chose a place like Australia or Rio de la Plata for being far from humans, knowing that once their alien tech breaks down, they'll have to face humanity on their own.

European explorers would discover a truly 'alien' people, at a tech level anywhere from prehistoric to early industrial (with some high TL items lying around).

[PTTG]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

People fleeing from a Hell World into what they think is the past, it is really just an Echo, could set up an interesting set of surprises.

Try a group fleeing a corporate dominated dying Earth. They land in San Francisco in the 1880's. They introduce technologies to speed economic development in the USA (In their history America was dominated by agrarian cultural idealists and stayed out of their world's WWI, leading an Anglo-Germanic corporate world dominance). By 1900 in this world, the USA is close to TL7 and the rest of the western world is a few years behind. The technology is of course poorly integrated into society as a whole, but there is an incredible economic boom going on. Just tracing down who did what and why would be a huge hassle.

Mix in the Cabal and/or Centrum and the mess gets truly vast.

And that is just one limited possibility.

Try a similar scenario with Song China or late Republican Rome.

Mark Twain would love it. If they showed up after 1889 he (or others) may call them "Morganites" after the Connecticut Yankee.

I'm just surprised that we'd need an alternate timeline to presume corporate domination is destroying Earth....

I presume that the time travelers would be fairly odd people, because they would have to be volunteers to go through a one-way time machine on its one and only use. Outside of the most trivial tests, there's no telling for sure they'd survive. If PCs were Morganites, I'd make them have some kind of mental disadvantage that would reflect this willingness to go on a virtual suicide mission, such as Fanaticism(FOR MOTHER GAIA!) or Guilt Complex(I failed the ecology!).

1880 is also an interesting time to go to because the Morganite USA would still have serious threats; it doesn't matter if the USA has reached TL7, a TL 5 naval barrage will still ruin your day in a hurry.

If instead we have modern Hong Kong getting Brigadooned to 420 CE, then the time travelers have an overwhelming advantage (albeit not a lot of food).