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Old 07-13-2009, 08:51 PM   #1
dataweaver
 
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Default Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

I was just reading the section on Thaumatology, p.192 about Practices, and was reminded of something that's been bothering me for a while now:

What's the difference between Symbolic Magic and Noun/Verb Magic that uses symbol-drawing as its Practice? Anything?
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:04 PM   #2
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

Mostly style. But there are some small differences (which aren't always small in practical game terms).

- Symbol magic takes a relatively long time to draw the symbols
- Symbol magic requires a roll against the symbol skill for each symbol; Noun/Verb one roll, with a -1 per extra word.
- and of course, words are spoken while symbols are drawn. This may not change the effects, but it will affect the feel and gameplay.

And while the symbols might be nouns/verbs, that's not necessarily the case. It might be interesting to have a system that has a lot of associations, as with the alchemical symbols (Venus / copper / beauty / creativity) or names of gods.
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

Another very interesting difference...

It is assumed that Syntactic ("Noun/Verb") spellcasting uses Magery; the default setting for Symbolic Magic, however, is that it does not use Magery. The symbols themselves have mystical power and anyone can learn to use them.

This actually got me thinking about magic that doesn't require Magery. (Magery is a great way to handle spellcasting for some settings, but for others it doesn't feel quite right. Some magical traditions suggest that anyone can learn magic...it doesn't depend on an innate "gift.") There are actually quite a few ways to do this in GURPS.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:38 PM   #4
Exeter
 
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Default Re: Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

Part of the difference, IMO, is the way the mage thinks about what she's doing. Assuming that both syntactic magic using symbols and symbol magic work in your world, the mage using the former believes the words the symbols represent have power, while the mage using straight symbol magic believes it's the symbols themselves that produce the magic.

This can be important if you decide that the two points of view translate into two distinct ways magic works. Using syntactic magic, a small error in drawing a symbol might not do anything at all to the spell -- the symbols are essentially like magical handwriting. But in symbol magic, such an error might lead to disastrous (or miraculous) results.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:50 AM   #5
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis
It is assumed that Syntactic ("Noun/Verb") spellcasting uses Magery; the default setting for Symbolic Magic, however, is that it does not use Magery. The symbols themselves have mystical power and anyone can learn to use them.
Yeah... mana is still required, but Magery is optional. That is in contrast to 2E Magic, where activating runes was done by a spell, so that you had to be a mage (except in HMZs).
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Old 07-14-2009, 12:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

As a consequence to some of these differences, things in practice get quite diverse. My symbolic (rune) mage has inscribed several symbols on his gear in order to take advantage of pre-drawn symbols, so symbolic magic has a lot of material consequence on the real world (runes all around), you can also read the symbols of an enchanted object, etc. The little things mesh together and are more evident in practice. Last time I played this was in 3e, so I'm not sure how much has changed.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

Noun/Verb magic has a strict differentiation between Nouns and Verbs.

Symbol magic, on the other hand, may have a single symbol acting in either or both roles, depending on how the symbol set is thrown together.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:51 PM   #8
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

Quote:
Noun/Verb magic has a strict differentiation between Nouns and Verbs.
Some spells which might come in handy:

Light Light (Fire College; Light and Darkness)
With a wave of his hand, the caster activates a light source such as a torch, lantern, or glow stick.

Form Form (Body)
This spell allows the caster to adjust his bodily shape into any other form with the same mass.

Control Control (Technology)
Especially useful at higher tech levels, this spell allows the caster to remotely manipulate any knobs or dials which control machinery.

Plant Plant (Plant)
Allows the caster to correctly and securely bury one instance of any type of plant firmly in the dirt, with correct soil density and watering to ensure the plant gets off to a good start. Continued survival of the plant depends on the local environment.

Value Value (Communication and Empathy)
Allows the caster to assess the actual value of an item to its current owner, invaluable during close negotiations. Treat the caster as having +4 to the reaction roll for determine buying and selling prices.

Cook Cook (Food)
Most commonly used by evil humanoid races, this spell instantly prepares another humanoid for consumption. However, the target humanoid must be currently engaged in food preparation or have the Cooking skill (which restriction explains the very low fatigue cost for what would otherwise be an incredibly lethal spell). For versions used against even more specialized individual targets, see "Flay Flay" and "Brown Brown".

Rain Rain (Weather; Air; Water)
Cause a flurry of small water droplets to fall down from the sky. Prerequisite for Rain Frogs and Rain Daggers.

Cause Cause (Meta)
Create a reason for some event to have occurred. Particularly favored by divine Creators that need a First Cause, as well as mob bosses that need to frame someone for a crime. See also "Cause Effect" (the general purpose do-anything spell).

Show Show (Communication and Empathy)
Enact an entertainment for an audience. Often used by bards to entrance crowds. When used for segments of a stage play, sometimes cast as "Act Act".
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:18 PM   #9
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes
Some spells which might come in handy:
<SNIP>
Clever! It's like one of my old threads, only without the smiley :)
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:05 PM   #10
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Noun/Verb vs. Symbolic Magic

Verbing weirds language.

(:))
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