Rapier Wit is kinda awesome

Mailanka · 12-09-2011, 04:36 PM

Running a practice fight with one of my players in my samurai campaign, and the topic of her (chi-based) Rapier Wit comes up. She's a sassy lass, and she's got gobs of Public Speaking (thanks to her enormous Charisma), so it's a pretty effective technique. As we play out the fight, it becomes obvious that Rapier Wit + Attack is a devastatingly effective combo.

Rapier Wit is, according to the book (and I've seen nothing that contradicts it) a free action. Nothing stops you from rolling Public Speaking every turn as you mock your opponent mercilessly to get a mental stun on him. Once he's stunned, it's unlikely to last long (most of her opponents have Combat Reflexes, so they'll snap free of the stun quickly), but since it's free, she can just attack once she's landed her insult and she'll probably get through their defenses.

Now, I'm not saying it's overpowered. Because it's chi-based, Mind Shield, Chi Resistance and numerous other traits will resist. Unfazeable makes you immune (and I've ruled that Indomitable does the same, because it's my game and I can), and there's plenty of ways to defeat it.

But for 5 points, it seems pretty impressively powerful. Is there something I'm missing? Or am I doing it right, and it's a totally great power if you're built for it?

the adventurer · 12-09-2011, 04:46 PM

"You fight like a dairy farmer."

whswhs · 12-09-2011, 04:48 PM

On one hand, I'd think seriously about not allowing it to be a free action. It does, after all, have the effect of an attack! If someone wants to be able to use Rapier Wit and a weapon strike, I'd make them buy Extra Attack. If you want a rationale, consider that coming up with that devastating a witticism takes full concentration.

On the other hand, there's an analogy between Rapier Wit and Affliction, which also has stun as a default effect. You could allow the other sorts of affliction as modifiers to Rapier Wit. . . .

Bill Stoddard

Langy · 12-09-2011, 04:54 PM

While it's not actually explicitly stated in the book, I think the intention was that you can't use Rapier Wit on the same opponent more than once per 'encounter', else you'll wind up in a stun-lock situation. I had a link to a Kromm-quote on this subject earlier when I was dealing with a Words of Power version of Rapier Wit (for a character able to inflict people with the ability to see past the veils of creation and into a Cthulhu-mythos reality; eventually, I rebuilt it as Terror, which is also a free action to use once 'on'), but don't anymore.

Mailanka · 12-09-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langy

While it's not actually explicitly stated in the book, I think the intention was that you can't use Rapier Wit on the same opponent more than once per 'encounter', else you'll wind up in a stun-lock situation.

That's exactly what I ended up with, and I thought it seemed a little extreme. I'd love to see more clarification on it, if it's meant to be once per encounter. That'd still be pretty strong, if used right. Certainly worth 5 points.

Mailanka · 12-09-2011, 05:05 PM

Here's the only thing I could find about Rapier Wit by Kromm

(There were more, but basically repeated the same thing).

Incidentally, I had assumed much the same thing, and she had stun-locked her opponent by mocking his (supposedly secret) passion for a geisha, and I had judged that you really need to know something about someone to make it work, and it turns out that's true.

It doesn't fix the stun lock situation, but I also personally find that you need to say something. It's not enough to say "I insult him and roll 10 on my Public Speaking roll." You should, you know, at least try. Between these two things, it's pretty well in control.

I just wondered if I was missing something, and it seems (from a more careful search of the forum) that I'm not. It's pretty open to abuse if not monitored.

Lord Carnifex · 12-09-2011, 05:16 PM

I'm in accord with whswhs here. Drop the "free action" aspect. I'd make it work more like a feint, myself.

Anaraxes · 12-09-2011, 05:27 PM

Obligatory OOTS illustration of the technique:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html

bocharuk · 12-09-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the adventurer

"You fight like a dairy farmer."

"What a coincidence. You fight like a cow."

jamesfoxbr · 12-09-2011, 06:14 PM

I remember the battles of the game Monkey Island 2
http://www.worldofmi.com/gamehelp/insults/mi1.php

12-09-2011, 04:36 PM	#1
Mailanka Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands	Rapier Wit is kinda awesome Running a practice fight with one of my players in my samurai campaign, and the topic of her (chi-based) Rapier Wit comes up. She's a sassy lass, and she's got gobs of Public Speaking (thanks to her enormous Charisma), so it's a pretty effective technique. As we play out the fight, it becomes obvious that Rapier Wit + Attack is a devastatingly effective combo. Rapier Wit is, according to the book (and I've seen nothing that contradicts it) a free action. Nothing stops you from rolling Public Speaking every turn as you mock your opponent mercilessly to get a mental stun on him. Once he's stunned, it's unlikely to last long (most of her opponents have Combat Reflexes, so they'll snap free of the stun quickly), but since it's free, she can just attack once she's landed her insult and she'll probably get through their defenses. Now, I'm not saying it's overpowered. Because it's chi-based, Mind Shield, Chi Resistance and numerous other traits will resist. Unfazeable makes you immune (and I've ruled that Indomitable does the same, because it's my game and I can), and there's plenty of ways to defeat it. But for 5 points, it seems pretty impressively powerful. Is there something I'm missing? Or am I doing it right, and it's a totally great power if you're built for it? __________________ My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars.

12-09-2011, 04:46 PM	#2
the adventurer Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: Rapier Wit is kinda awesome "You fight like a dairy farmer."

12-09-2011, 04:48 PM	#3
whswhs Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS	Re: Rapier Wit is kinda awesome On one hand, I'd think seriously about not allowing it to be a free action. It does, after all, have the effect of an attack! If someone wants to be able to use Rapier Wit and a weapon strike, I'd make them buy Extra Attack. If you want a rationale, consider that coming up with that devastating a witticism takes full concentration. On the other hand, there's an analogy between Rapier Wit and Affliction, which also has stun as a default effect. You could allow the other sorts of affliction as modifiers to Rapier Wit. . . . Bill Stoddard

12-09-2011, 04:54 PM	#4
Langy Join Date: May 2008 Location: CA	Re: Rapier Wit is kinda awesome While it's not actually explicitly stated in the book, I think the intention was that you can't use Rapier Wit on the same opponent more than once per 'encounter', else you'll wind up in a stun-lock situation. I had a link to a Kromm-quote on this subject earlier when I was dealing with a Words of Power version of Rapier Wit (for a character able to inflict people with the ability to see past the veils of creation and into a Cthulhu-mythos reality; eventually, I rebuilt it as Terror, which is also a free action to use once 'on'), but don't anymore.

12-09-2011, 05:05 PM	#6
Mailanka Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands	Re: Rapier Wit is kinda awesome Here's the only thing I could find about Rapier Wit by Kromm (There were more, but basically repeated the same thing). Incidentally, I had assumed much the same thing, and she had stun-locked her opponent by mocking his (supposedly secret) passion for a geisha, and I had judged that you really need to know something about someone to make it work, and it turns out that's true. It doesn't fix the stun lock situation, but I also personally find that you need to say something. It's not enough to say "I insult him and roll 10 on my Public Speaking roll." You should, you know, at least try. Between these two things, it's pretty well in control. I just wondered if I was missing something, and it seems (from a more careful search of the forum) that I'm not. It's pretty open to abuse if not monitored. __________________ My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars.

12-09-2011, 05:16 PM	#7
Lord Carnifex Join Date: Oct 2005	Re: Rapier Wit is kinda awesome I'm in accord with whswhs here. Drop the "free action" aspect. I'd make it work more like a feint, myself. __________________ An ongoing narrative of philosophy, psychology, and semiotics: Et in Arcadia Ego "To an Irishman, a serious matter is a joke, and a joke is a serious matter."

12-09-2011, 05:27 PM	#8
Anaraxes Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: Rapier Wit is kinda awesome Obligatory OOTS illustration of the technique: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html

12-09-2011, 06:14 PM	#10
jamesfoxbr Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil	Re: Rapier Wit is kinda awesome I remember the battles of the game Monkey Island 2 http://www.worldofmi.com/gamehelp/insults/mi1.php