Apocalypse and Munchkinomicon

[NeosMagus]

If you target another player with Giant Meteor and it opens the 7th Seal, does that player lose an item before the Seal opens? Or does the Seal immediately open and override anything else?

And if you happen to be playing with the Munchkinomicon, would that scenario cause the Munchkinomicon to still switch players before the 7th opens, if the Disaster affected the other player?

[chrism_morgan]

As far as the Seventh Seal in Apocalypse, from everything I've read and understand about it, as soon as the seventy one opens, the game end, period. There is no trading and such, now if the card in question says sucsess.an item and open a seal you must do both.

[Mister Ed]

I guess the question is (and I think this question has come up during our games, as well) does the way the card is worded make a difference? If the card tells you to "Do X and Open a Seal" do you actually do X first, THEN open the seal? Or does the fact that the card opens the Seventh Seal instantly end the game, no matter what else it may say on that card?

[Blazinjsin]

We always play them in the order it's written, so they would lose the item first. I feel like the munchkinomicon would change hands as well as part of the effect, then the seal would open.

[NeosMagus]

Well the rules say that when the Seventh Seal opens, there's no time anymore, and no chance to cancel the card that causes it.

But if the Giant Meteor has time to remove the player's item, and the Munchkinomicon has time to move between players... wouldn't the targetted player then still have time to use Wishing Ring or some other power to prevent the disaster before it opens the seal?

Also what if it was gotten via kicking down the door, would The King (Warehouse 23 exclusive card) prevent the seal from opening? Or rather prevent the disaster from occuring?

[Andrew Hackard]

If the card that opens the Seventh Seal has another *simultaneous* effect, such as "Lose an Item AND Open a Seal," then that effect takes place. It is not the case that losing the Item happens after opening the Seal, so any argument relying on that timing is incorrect.

[NeosMagus]

Thanks Andrew.

So is my understanding correct then? If Giant Meteor would open the 7th Seal, then the targetted player loses his item and the seal opens and there's no way to block the disaster, and thereby either effect?

Now would the Munchkinomicon go to the player that played the Disaster?

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by NeosMagus

So is my understanding correct then? If Giant Meteor would open the 7th Seal, then the targetted player loses his item and the seal opens and there's no way to block the disaster, and thereby either effect?

That is an interesting question and I can see both sides. I think I'd be tempted to allow the "Lose an Item" half to be blocked, but not the "Open a Seal," but that is NOT a final answer.

Originally Posted by NeosMagus

Now would the Munchkinomicon go to the player that played the Disaster?

No, because that is NOT a simultaneous effect.

[NeosMagus]

Its what I figured in terms of the rules, but I must say that I like the idea that the Munchkinomicon might go to the player that brings about the Apocalypse... :D

And to my other question, if the player has immunity to curses when kicking down the door (The King card from the exclusive booster), would this block Giant Meteor? I'm assuming also not, if its the 7th Seal, though maybe if you decide to go with that ruling, it would block the losing of the item?

[Andrew Hackard]

If the player is totally immune to Disasters, then the Disaster never triggers and the Seventh Seal never opens. Immunity prevents the Disaster from ever taking place; it's different from canceling a Disaster after it has reared its head.