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Old 04-08-2005, 02:54 PM   #21
Saint
 
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman
The Short Story is "Judas Ace".
I knew someone here in the forums would know the answer.

As usual it was Bookman ;)
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Old 04-08-2005, 08:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent
What about at Hiroshima?
The atomic bomb do not win the war, it shortened it. The US could have invaded Japan successfully if they had to. Had the a-bomb been finished sooner it may have won the war, but it was not and development time was one of the big problems with secret weapons in WW2.
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Old 04-09-2005, 05:20 AM   #23
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

Two things;

1 per 1,000 is a whole lot of supers!!

If the number were smaller and the heros not cosmic in might, they would probably be used for recruitment/public relations more than anything.

(IMO & OT) The a-bomb was not much of a factor in Japan's decision to surrender. This is a frequently debated point amongst WWII historians, (though not so much in the U.S.), and too large of a subject to avoid threadjacking. Maybe start a new post for that in G:WWII?
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Old 04-10-2005, 12:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by christ0pher
I'm looking for "realistic" global repercussions from making about 1 in every 1,000 people Super.
One thing I would suggest thinking about. If we assume the supers are spread comparable to population densities. Germany, Italy and Japan are fairly minor countries (population wise) when you compare them to China, the British Empire (esp. India), the USSR, the USA. So the allied countries should have considerable advantage over the axis countries in number of supers.
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Old 04-10-2005, 01:21 AM   #25
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

Well the first thing I would probably do as a GM is decide how much flash I want the average super to have versus subtle affects, and while most powers in a 250 point campaign might not mean much their are a few that could be bought under the cap that could certainly the war in radical ways. A small cadre of Nazi supers with the possesion advantage or various mind control powers could create a rapid series of coups against the allied political leaders. A regiment of infantry that are unkillable 3 or that possess supernatural durability could be a terrifying sight on the battlefield.

For that matter a Hitler with Unkillabe 3 and unaging could create some very interesting problems in the war/post war era, as he acts as a rallying point for the nazis and neonazi movements in the postwar era.

Secondly I would consider giving some very broad themes associated with various countries/geographic areas etc. For instance Russian supers might have a higher concentration in Ice related powers as well as powers that allow them to live off the land (doesnt eat, cast iron stomach etc). Brittish Supers might have a high concentration of supers with aquatic affects, American supers might have a high percentage of gadgeteers/gizmo supers etc.

Third I would probably decide what core events of the war I want changed and what events I want to have happen but change the reasons for them. For instance I might have the plots to kill Hitler fail because Hitler has Unkillable 3. I might have the various Nazi coups be a result of a squad of Nazi telepaths who are successful up to the battle of Britain for example.
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Old 04-10-2005, 10:41 AM   #26
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie
If we assume the supers are spread comparable to population densities . . . allied countries should have considerable advantage over the axis countries in number of supers.
There is the possibility that Nazi Germany would experiment, and try to create armies of super-soldiers (ala The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen).

If they succeed the numbers might be much closer, or even more in their favor. But then the "artificially" created super-soldiers may not be as powerful as "natural" supers. So it could be balanced out as the GM likes.
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Old 04-11-2005, 05:06 AM   #27
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by christ0pher
ok, here's my dilemma, while planning a new campaign based around the start of the second World War, the question came up of what would happen if Super Humans were introduced into the mix...

I'm looking for "realistic" global repercussions from making about 1 in every 1,000 people Super. The average would be 250 points, the exceptional would be 500 points, and a small few would be 700+ points.

Is the war over in a week?
Does it go on for decades?

Any help/suggestions/comments would be appreciated.
Well at that point level it means that supers can be killed by infantry
weapons even if tehy use equipment to increase defense (read get body
armor to increase DR). Still such tropps will be very tough for ordinary
infantry so they will be great for offensives offering greatest 'punch' per one
man. As result frontlines will become more fluid it will be enchanced by fact
that special forces like paratropers or comandos most likely will be composed
exclusively by supers increasing thier force multipleir.
Ocupation of hostle population will be much more dificult since tehre is 1000
supers per milion of poulation! It will be very dificult for germans to maintain
supply lines given their policy versus ocupied nations (mass execution create
a lot of hate ) .. mot of supers from ocupied countries wil be trying to live
normal lifes but some will want strike back and this time it would be much
easier. Specila consideration reauire large partisant movemnts espetiall in
yugoslawia and russia and maybe poland becouse all vital raliroads to russia
go through that country
Soviet army requires very carefull consideration. Given control of sovet
goverment it woul be posileb for them field most of tehir supers in 1941 ..and
loose alll or most of them, but equlally oposite result is possible say sueprs
wer mistrusted by Stalin and not put to military service only becouse
deperation after disasters in 41 (and lost in pointles ofensives or again maybe
not). Anyway gove large soviet population IRC aropun 300 000 000 (but could
be wrong) they potentially have acess to 300 000 supers with about half or
more are capable to military service and other half can be used behind the
lines duties. Compare that german poulation od say 90 000 000 (generouse
asumption) teht gives 45 000 mitary grade supers. Thst soviet abdundance
of supers if used corectly coud tip balance in sovet favor allowing them to
break german frontline elier than in RL. It is posible to have susessful soviet
winter ofensiwe breaking german lines in nastiest winter of the war (when
german were porest prepared for it .. well tehy weren weren't prepared their
infanrly lacked even winter clothinig ) forcing them to strategic retreat during
worst forst with could lead to out of whole aremr or even army groups. It
could create sitatuion in spring 42 similoiar to one form spring 43 or even
spring 44/45 in the german army .. just fornt lines would be diffrent based
how far winter ofensive would go. whatwer you selettle for rember that
ordinary army woul be required to hold the ground and they require foood,
amunitin and fuel so any sueprpowered advance would be limited by it.
A lot of depend when supers would appar in the world and thus how
advanced would be military planning in utilising superpowered soldier. Given
german aptitude in seeking and using new ideas (to overcome limitaions
coming form their resource poll and strategic position) teht they woul be be
forst to use efectively an in fulest extent their supers but given fact that
IMO germans advanced in 41/42 as far as ther reasonably could so I don't see much difference there to RL but but tehir early victories argumented by
superpowered batalions/regiments coul give tehm edge in 43 allowning to finally cripple soviet union in 43/44.
As I pointed out war could go better/worse/same for germans so it's your
game decision what you implement, IMO it's too great source for diffrent
WWII showing that supers really matter in your world so going for route of
makinig WWII similiart to RL is bad .. but it saves a lot fo work required to
establish alternative timeline of WWII and devloping major events.

And last wille some sugested nasty unkilable Hitler, you can take diffrent
route .. tehre were a lot of asasination atempts on Hitler life. Given
superwers this could suceed (in RL tehy could succed too .. Hitler had a lot
of luck and mabe kind of sense allowing him to survive) .. that way you could have WWII with diffrent german leader.
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Old 04-30-2005, 07:15 AM   #28
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

This reminds me of a SF short story called "Captain America vs. Thor". (I looked it up on the web and apparently David Brin wrote it).

Basically the Nazi's ritual magic summoned the Norse gods who ended most of the fighting in Europe by their powers. The only exception was the tricker rebel Loki who sided with the Americans.

The story is a about a viginitte with a team of American commandoes led by Loki sneaking into a Norse temple, via submarine, to destroy the source of the Norse gods. It has Loki casting a magic on the commandoes to make them god-like once they're about to die.

*************************************

Overall, it doesn't boil down to pt. cost, but how vulnerable the powered people are. If they're relatively indestructible, then it's just a matter of the tactics of how they're used---can they defend the crucial homeland infrastructure while delivering a knock-out blow?

Otherwise I'd compare them to vehicles of the time. E.g. one might be flying super-tank with a novel weapon system.
Like other people are saying, if they can't be combined into trainable units though, they are only going to be locally useful, like giving a couple of bonuses as two tank battalions square off against each other. So the main effect would be units that historically didn't have tanks---would have some, and those with tanks would have some better tanks randomally included. Even if super-powered like a Bismarck battleship, they'd have a dominating effect, but can only be in one area at a time in the Global theatre, and subject to being targeted by special operations.

The net effect mainly would be some special operations to target them, while maximizing one's own collection of supers. Excepting a brilliant surprize attack by a gang of supers, the supers war would mainly be trying to attrit the other sides supers, until there was a 'Supers Gap', and then use that to maximum damage against the normal (probably as a combined arms group including supers and normals, especially bomber-fighter groups, guided rockets, and armored groups the best normal weapons of the day).

Otherwise even worse, they'd just be randomally dispersed in the normal military as 'special weapons officers', and have no net effect, just pretty comic book effects, as they met other randomally dispersed supers on the other side.
At 1:1000, they'd be fairly common, so some might
Alternatively, they might just make a special 'Homeland Defense', that made it much harder for the war to reach conclusion---effect: homeland fear is somewhat lessened, but the war would actually prolong until the supers were attrited.

My guess: If used intelligently, the supers could shorten WW2, maybe by 1/2 to 2/3rds. Otherwise they randomally counteract each other to no change, or if used purely defensively, they prolong the war, or cause a stalemate (assuming the national resolve to fight a WW is only about 5 years).


But...what if the supers could be used in factories to help increase war material output?




Quote:
Originally Posted by christ0pher
ok, here's my dilemma, while planning a new campaign based around the start of the second World War, the question came up of what would happen if Super Humans were introduced into the mix...

I'm looking for "realistic" global repercussions from making about 1 in every 1,000 people Super. The average would be 250 points, the exceptional would be 500 points, and a small few would be 700+ points.

Is the war over in a week?
Does it go on for decades?

Any help/suggestions/comments would be appreciated.
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Old 04-30-2005, 11:20 AM   #29
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

I think simply saying that a person who is a tank is like a tank is oversimplifying. Thats like saying a flying blaster is just like a plane. A meta would have a lot more advantages and if he was smarter than the Hulk he could use them to full advantage. First off, a tank is SLOW and is turret based. Shells aren't exactly cheap and tanks have to have many people to operate it efficiently. A tanklike super could sneak wreak havok on infantry, sneak behind lines and destroy artillery, not to mention wreak havok on enemy tank troops. Hes small, as strong, and more mobile. He can get behind the line or close enough that their size is a disadvantage (unless hes at a distance the tanks really have no chance) and destroy the tanks. A flying blaster super would have some advantages over modern aircraft let alone WW2 era planes. First off, they would have a more accurate attack at the range than they have. They have an attack that tech now is just starting to be able to duplicate with weapon interfaces like that of the Soviet MIG26 where you think and it fires to where you want it to go. Flying you can stop sooner and are more maneuverable than the planes. It would take an exception ace pilot to even equal an average DX metahuman flyer because they're pulling levers, throttles, and controls and transferring human reflexes through a machine where yours are direct. I want to turn so I turn. Its the perfect ground for low to mid level flyers and tanks since tech isn't that high yet. Tanks aren't that resistant to damage and planes are all in the 300 mph range. So all in all a great grounds for a game. The players aren't undefeatable and have to use their wits to stay alive and useful, but can do great things if they do and in the right circumstances.
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Old 04-30-2005, 01:14 PM   #30
Importance
 
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Default Re: WWII + Supers = ???

It is really hard to sneak an actual tank behind the lines to wreak havoc on enemies rear areas. It is much easier to sneak a supers tank there as well.

Forget using them on the front lines. They're perfect for destroying lines of communication, supply, command and control, etc.
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