Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

[Kesendeja]

Using the Fifth Attribute for Quintessence to represent the soul.

You would average IQ and QN then multiply by 5. Each piece has a cost for humanity associated with it and for every 5 points you have, you earn that amount in disadvantages representing your alienation from humanity.

This can be bought off in game with CP and actively trying to reconnect to your humanity.

[The Colonel]

One thing that has often puzzled me in cyberpunk "humanity loss" is cause and effect - it's one thing to be all David Jensen: to be torn to pieces and rebuilt with so much metal that you find yourself questioning your humanity, but when you choose to remove healthy flesh and replace it with metal so that you can be a better killer, has the humanity loss caused the cyberware rather than vice-versa?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

One thing that has often puzzled me in cyberpunk "humanity loss" is cause and effect - it's one thing to be all David Jensen: to be torn to pieces and rebuilt with so much metal that you find yourself questioning your humanity, but when you choose to remove healthy flesh and replace it with metal so that you can be a better killer, has the humanity loss caused the cyberware rather than vice-versa?

I assume you're referring here to Adam Jensen, the protagonist of the Deus Ex prequels. But that does suggest an interesting way of handling things. To voluntarily get your bits replaced, you need to have already lost some degree of Humanity... and having your bits replaced without your consent (as happened to Jensen) can cause you to slowly lose Humanity.

Of course, practically, I feel this wouldn't really work as a game mechanic, due to creating perverse incentives - "I'm only 5 puppy-kicks away from losing enough Humanity to be able to put some Mantis Blades in my character's arms!"

[Kesendeja]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Of course, practically, I feel this wouldn't really work as a game mechanic, due to creating perverse incentives - "I'm only 5 puppy-kicks away from losing enough Humanity to be able to put some Mantis Blades in my character's arms!"

This is a perfect example of the chicken and egg paradox, and why I've always found humanity hard to do.

[sir_pudding]

It's also kind of absurd to think that when grandma gets her hip replaced she can become a soulless killer.

Also amputees who receive effective prosthetics usually get improved mental health than the converse.

[Kesendeja]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It's also kind of absurd to think that when grandma gets her hip replaced she can become a soulless killer.

People who receive effective prosthetics usually get improved mental health than the converse.

It's true. Basic prosthetics wouldn't cost humanity. I'm thinking it's the peripherals that do it to you, the stuff that makes you "more than human". So there would have to be costs on a sliding scale. Replace your lost arm with a prosthetic no humanity cost, fill that arm up with weapons and augmentations, that would cost.

So your average joe getting the replacement parts out of neccesity isn't affected nearly as much as the street sam trying to pack in augmented strength and mantis blades. He'd pay for the strength and blades, not the arm.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It's also kind of absurd to think that when grandma gets her hip replaced she can become a soulless killer.

Also amputees who receive effective prosthetics usually get improved mental health than the converse.

Yeah. My wife has had her lenses replaced as a treatment for cataracts; you can see the diamondlike glints when her eyes are at the right angle . . .

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Kesendeja

Using the Fifth Attribute for Quintessence to represent the soul.

You would average IQ and QN then multiply by 5. Each piece has a cost for humanity associated with it and for every 5 points you have, you earn that amount in disadvantages representing your alienation from humanity.

This can be bought off in game with CP and actively trying to reconnect to your humanity.

I know, you've already ditched the idea, but this is one of those examples of importing a foreign game mechanic when GURPs already had a native mechanic available to perform the same function. There would be no difference between spending points to buy off lowered "humanity" and just spending points to get the cyberware itself. And if you go into point debt...you acquire Disadvantages, right?

[Kesendeja]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I know, you've already ditched the idea, but this is one of those examples of importing a foreign game mechanic when GURPs already had a native mechanic available to perform the same function. There would be no difference between spending points to buy off lowered "humanity" and just spending points to get the cyberware itself. And if you go into point debt...you acquire Disadvantages, right?

Cyberware was to be bought with cash only. And the humanity loss could be bought back, but if you went to far into debt you ended up with disadvantages, which would dissapear when your humanity rose high enough to "pay" for them.

[Opellulo]

I don't know, I still think that "Humanity" is a core concept in Cyb2020/Red but it must be a game theme in addition to being a game mechanic.

Cyberpunk has deadly encounters and health mechanics to reflect permanent injuries. Installing Cyberware is a both a power level check, a game style balance AND a player choice.