Question about Tactical Combat

[AllenOwen]

This is for GURPS gurus:

On pg 386 of the Basic Set, in the lower right side, there is a diagram showing a 180 degree turn. Is that movement 6 Movement points, or only 5?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by AllenOwen

On pg 386 of the Basic Set, in the lower right side, there is a diagram showing a 180 degree turn. Is that movement 6 Movement points, or only 5?

Actually, 3. This is explained in "Forward Movement and Facing", just above the diagram.

[AllenOwen]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Actually, 3. This is explained in "Forward Movement and Facing", just above the diagram.

Facing changes cost +1 before or during a move, per page 387 under Movement Point Costs. So does that not count for movement point costs? Why not?

Seems to me it would be: Turn one face to the right, +1 movement point, then move forward one hex, 1 movement point. Turn one face to the right, +1 movement points, then move forward one hex, 1 movement point, turn one face right a final time, +1 movement points, then move forward one hex, 1 movement point. I get 6 movement points.
Without accounting for the facing changes, it would be 3 movement points.

Why do the facing changes not count in this case?

[AllenOwen]

This seems to me, a contradiction:

Forward Movement and Facing, pg 386 seems to say I can make three consecutive "forward" moves and turn in a circle for 3 Movement Points. It doesn't actually say how many movement points this costs though. Just that three consecutive "forward" movements let me run in a half circle.

Then, under Facing Changes and Movement, pg 387, it says "you may also change facing before or during a Move, Move and Attack, or All Out Defense (Increased Dodge) maneuver, but this costs movements points. Each hex side of facing change counts as one yard of movement, e.g. 180 degree turn costs three movement points."

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by AllenOwen

This seems to me, a contradiction:

Forward Movement and Facing, pg 386 seems to say I can make three consecutive "forward" moves and turn in a circle for 3 Movement Points. It doesn't actually say how many movement points this costs though.

As you say, moving those three hexes while changing facing to each one as you move into it costs 3 MP. That is, one per hex moved, including the facing change to face it.

You can move into any of your three forward hexes for one movement point. When you move into a forward hex, you must turn to face that hex -- which doesn't cost anything extra. It's included as part of the move, as the most natural way humans move.

If you want to move into your left-forward or right-forward hex without changing facing, that's a "sidestep", which costs 2 MP. (First thing on B387.) Moving to your sides or rear also costs 2 MP, and doesn't include any facing change.

Other facing changes that cost no MP come at the end of your turn -- one hexside when you finish movement, or facing to any hexside if you used less than half your Move (often with a Step, for instance).

Remaining possibilities for facing changes during movement cost 1 MP per hexside. This is what the last bit of text you quoted is saying. Running in a small circle costs 6 MP, one for each hex you enter, turning to face each as you enter it for free.

Running in a three-hex triangle also costs 6 MP.
1) Turn one hexside right and move forward (1 MP)
2) Turn one hexside right in place (1MP)
3) Repeat twice more to return to your starting position.

Standing in place and facing each hexside sequentially during a Move action would also cost 6 MP -- though it's highly unlikely that you'd do this unless you were deliberately trying to trigger a Wait "until I can hit his side hex" or something. You could just adopt your desired end-of-turn facing for free, having spent 0 MP, which is less than half your Move.

Running in a circle around that three-hex triangle as a center would cost 9 MP. You can turn to face each hex (when necessary) as you enter it for free, so 9 MP for 9 hexes around. This leaves you in your original hex, but facing one hexside clockwise from the way you started. So, to return to your original facing, you could spend another MP (for a total of 10) -- or you can take it as your free hexside change at the end of move, since the goal was just to return to the original position.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

You can move into any of your three forward hexes for one movement point. When you move into a forward hex, you must turn to face that hex -- which doesn't cost anything extra.

In reviewing B386, can't seem to find where it says there's no extra charge for the required 60-degree turn.

B387's table mentions no exceptions under "Facing Changes" for this situation, like it mentions 'Free' for the end-of-turn facing change.

Conceptually I don't think there's any problem with charging that fee, it would put this step+turn on equal pricing as a "sidestep into front" (where you enter either of those hexes without changing facing) and make the true-forward movement the least expensive form of travel, as it ought to be.

If we don't do that, then true-forward only wins out after 1 second when you can apply that unimpressive 20% sprinting boost.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Plane

In reviewing B386, can't seem to find where it says there's no extra charge for the required 60-degree turn.

The paragraph discusses "forward" movement, of which there are three kinds (let's call them "left", "straight", and "right"), all of which cost one 1MP.

If they'd wanted left and right movement to be different than straight movement, they wouldn't have lumped all three into "forward" movement with the same cost. They could just have easily listed straight (perhaps as "forward") for 1 MP, along with left/right (at 2 MP). But they didn't. The description of sidestep also says that not changing facing does cost an extra MP for the forward move, which also suggests that changing facing (as required in the defined procedure) does not cost more than the usual move.

Here's the 2004 version of the question, about the same diagram on B386. Kromm (naturally) manages to be much more concise than I am.

Originally Posted by Kromm

It costs 3, because it's all forward movement.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=2473

[AllenOwen]

I see I am not the only one to have that question! Well, it's all cleared up now. Thank you!

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The paragraph discusses "forward" movement, of which there are three kinds (let's call them "left", "straight", and "right"), all of which cost one 1MP.

If they'd wanted left and right movement to be different than straight movement, they wouldn't have lumped all three into "forward" movement with the same cost. They could just have easily listed straight (perhaps as "forward") for 1 MP, along with left/right (at 2 MP). But they didn't.

That could be since there's already a separate rule for charging for a turn.

Plus you don't have to pay that fee if it's at the end of your move, which is why it would be wrong to just merge that fee into the actual stepping fee.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The description of sidestep also says that not changing facing does cost an extra MP for the forward move, which also suggests that changing facing (as required in the defined procedure) does not cost more than the usual move.

I'm not sure how that suggestion is perceived in B387...

You can also “sidestep” into a front hex (C) while keeping your original facing.
This is allowed during an All-Out attack (as well as on a Move, etc.).
It also costs two movement points.

Consider this comparison:

"You may also change facing before or during your movement .. Each hex-side
of facing change counts as one yard of movement" (387)
"you must turn to face the hex as you enter it" (386)

as=during and no exception listed

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Here's the 2004 version of the question, about the same diagram on B386. Kromm (naturally) manages to be much more concise than I am.

That of course is WOG-override but I still think the original wording was more flexible.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Plane

Consider this comparison:

"You may also change facing before or during your movement .. Each hex-side
of facing change counts as one yard of movement" (387)
"you must turn to face the hex as you enter it" (386)

as=during and no exception listed

I read the "also" on 387 to refer to any additional, not-included-in-movement facing change, which I take the facing change when stepping to a front hex to feature.

"If you go straight ahead, your facing will not change; otherwise it will change by one hex-side"

It will change. I.e. you have to expend movement points to avoid that change, as per a sidestep.