01-29-2020, 12:56 PM | #21 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
Re: Seaplanes or Amphibious Aircraft for Caribbean Adventuring and Logistics
If you're looking at an An-10 or An-12, you're in the C-130 Hercules class, and should look at it as well.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
01-29-2020, 03:40 PM | #22 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
|
C-130 Hercules
Quote:
The An-10 and An-12 were included because it is canonically established that NPC Contacts of the Patron were involved in obtaining all sorts of ex-Soviet 'surplus' military hardware after the fall of the Soviet Union and I figured these might have been available at some point before 1995 at much more affordable prices than the equivalent Western aircraft. This size category might be too big, at any rate, for my requirements. Granted, the high cruise speeds and long ranges are nice, but given that I don't expect any need to ever transport more than 30 people with light equipment (i.e. not actual platoon-level firepower), it's probably more important to be able to use shorter runways and need less infrastructure. In case there is no more practical way to get this sort of range combined with this sort of cruising speed; are C-130 aircraft available at prices more reasonable than four times or more the cost of a former Soviet aircraft of a similar role? Or, if not, is the C-130 so much more capable, reliable and/or otherwise suitable that it's worth buying it even for many times the price of the rough Soviet equivalent?
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 01-29-2020 at 04:09 PM. |
|
01-29-2020, 10:47 PM | #23 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
Re: C-130 Hercules
Quote:
Another option, and they were in use in the area as civilian passenger aircraft until the 70s, is civilianised versions of the Short Sunderland. Big, long range, huge endurance. Without all the military hardware (guns, turrets, bomb racks, etc.) and the normal flight crew of 'only' five they should have plenty of capacity for 10-15 guys and their kit. They'd want a collapsible/inflatable dingy for wilderness craft to shore work, given the size of a Sunderland, to make things a bit easier, but again - plenty of room for that. EDIT: And now that I re-read your post, I see that you mention this option.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." Last edited by Rupert; 01-29-2020 at 10:59 PM. |
|
01-31-2020, 01:56 AM | #24 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
|
Re: C-130 Hercules/An-12/Short Sunderland
Quote:
Quote:
In general, aside from amphibious aircraft or seaplanes, what are good TL7 transport aircraft that are simple, robust and capable of operating from modest airfields? Because I'll need at least one type that can take PCs (and other occultists afraid of machines that are too modern) distances of 1,000+ miles without spending an eternity in the air.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! |
||
01-31-2020, 05:43 AM | #25 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
Re: Seaplanes or Amphibious Aircraft for Caribbean Adventuring and Logistics
The basic late-TL6/early-TL7 choice is the DC-3/C-47. 1,600 miles useful range cruising at about 200 mph, and still a couple of thousand in use today.
A later, larger, option is the Fairchild C-119 which can carry about three times the passengers, or up to 12 tons of cargo (though that much load would cut range by quite a bit), with about the same speed and range. A similar sized aircraft was the Hawker Siddeley Andover (a bit smaller, cruises at 270 mph, so a bit faster). The next size up is dominated by the C-130, and it's about as big as you'll get onto a poor runway unless you go for the An-22 (but that seems excessive for Kessler's needs). A C-130 cruises at over 300 mph, and can carry 60+ soldiers and their kit (and twice that if you pack them in like sardines, but they won't be exiting the craft quickly). The French-German Transall is similar, but just not quite as good (a bit slower, a bit less payload, a bit shorter ranged). The An-12 cruises at about 400 mph, but is otherwise much the same as the C-130 (though with its higher wing-loading I expect it probably requires a longer take-off and landing run). The Ilyushin Il-76 is probably the biggest sensible option - it has rough-landing capability, is late TL7 (went into production 1974), and there are plenty around in a wide range of types. Experience in Afghanistan shows them to be a robust aircraft that's hard to shoot down and which can be landed safely even when damaged. They can lift over 50 tons (much more in the newer versions, but they are definitely TL8 builds, so not in consideration), fly ~2,500 miles with a 50 ton payload or ~4,500 miles with a 20 ton payload, and cruise at 470+ mph. It's probably too much plane, but it certainly delivers. There are also a range of ex-Soviet small to medium airliners from the 50s onwards that are grass strip capable, and for moving people and some cargo from airfield to airfield with no expectation of hostile activity they are probably the better bets - they'll be faster and cheaper to run than 'tactical' transports.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
01-31-2020, 02:47 PM | #26 | |||||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
|
D) Long-Range Transport
Quote:
Kessler will inevitably have acquired one at some point, probably as he and people around him started to better understand the ramification of magical interference with technology correlating with increased technological sophistication. It's not ideal as the longest ranged transport, the one that would handle flights from Galveston to Caribbean destinations, mostly because of the slow cruising speed compared to actual TL7 transport aircraft, but it will do very well as a non-amphibious Do-Everything Transport for taking people from the Bahamas to the Lesser Antilles or vice versa. Quote:
Magic interfering with technology was a concern once they'd studied it for a few years, yes, but it didn't assume the importance it would later until after the disaster in 1995. After all, using TL6 designs in preference to something newer and better is a pretty strange thing to do and there was a natural reluctance to shift wholesale over to less effective aircraft just because of a theoretical threat that hadn't actually killed anyone. The C-130 is a pretty great plane for Kessler's purposes, but it suffers from a high price tag and might be difficult to even acquire. Are there even many C-130 in private hands? It's still in service, so there won't surplus aircraft (least not ones still airworthy) and I can't see that they make any civilian equivalent offered for commercial sale. Kessler's right hand man is a former French Former Legion paratrooper who mostly jumped from C-160s and later a few C-130s. As were, I believe, about five of the security personnel working for Kessler in 1995. So Jean-Michel Alexandre would certainly be familiar with the strengths of these two designs and would probably have recommended them... if they would be bought for reasonable sums around 1987-192 or so. Quote:
Leaving, perhaps... Quote:
An Il-76 costs about $50 to $66 million new, but those are improved variants compared to what would be available in 1990 or 1991. Also, one would hope that it would be possible to get bargains at this time, from Colonels who weren't being paid and didn't have any idea what would happen to their countries. Quote:
I want some of the more warlike inventory available to Kessler to reflect the fact that just as he was preparing a secret paramilitary organization to fight supernatural threats, something that might have been the greatest glut of surplus military equipment in history hit the world market. As Kessler canonically has a close relationship with several arms dealers who were heavily involved in post-1990 events in former Soviet countries, he'd have snapped up anything he could get for reasonable prices which he thought would be helpful for his occult operations. Smuggling in heavy weapons to the US was too risky*, but Eastern Bloc transport or passenger aircraft without weaponry could have been legally imported almost anywhere. *But Kessler absolutely has access to former Soviet machine guns and perhaps other military equipment stored on Caribbean islands where the authorities are very inclined towards him.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! |
|||||
01-31-2020, 02:58 PM | #27 | ||
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
|
Re: D) Long-Range Transport
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques. |
||
01-31-2020, 03:27 PM | #28 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
|
Re: D) Long-Range Transport
Quote:
Is the ca $34-50 million for a used C-130H and the $4-5 million for a used C-100-30 purely a reflection of some very expensive military hardware not present in the civilian-ised aircraft or are the C-130H really better aircraft in some way that could matter to Kessler? Also, if he were to use an C-130 or C-100, they'd have to be able to make a direct Galveston to Douglas-Charles Airport (Dominica) flight in a reasonable timeframe. So he'd need extra fuel tanks, which I imagine could be arranged, especially as he'd usually be carrying a much lighter load of passengers and equipment than typical military transport use.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! |
|
01-31-2020, 05:02 PM | #29 | |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
|
Re: D) Long-Range Transport
Quote:
The L-100 has never been a commercially successful aircraft. It costs too much to run, and it's rather large for most of the civilian freight work that needs to go to short rough fields. It's very cool, but that doesn't pay the bills. Kessler's essentially paramilitary requirements are rather different from a civilian freight line. An L-100 would seem to suit him rather well.
__________________
The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques. |
|
01-31-2020, 06:59 PM | #30 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
Re: Seaplanes or Amphibious Aircraft for Caribbean Adventuring and Logistics
For what it's worth, civilian transport model IL-76TDs seem to go for about $5 million. New models run at something like $30 million.
Many military and civilian Il-76s were disposed of after the breakup of the USSR, so they would've been available through both legit and dodgy channels. I think if one wanted a muscular transport, with lots of capacity and range, it's the one to get. Still in service, with quite a few made and in use for such a large aircraft, parts and general servicing will be easy to arrange. I do like the way it's still got a glazed lower nose for the navigator, so if all the fancy instruments fail they can get down there with a map, and find landmarks by eye, the old-fashioned way.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
Tags |
aircraft, caribbean, monster hunters, seaplane, vile vortices |
|
|