[Gun Fu] Army of One overpowered?

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

Reading Gun Fu, the Army of One Perk seems to be waaaay too useful. It basically increases a person firepower twofold, and seems to be very good for Gunslingers due to the full Acc with one-handed weapons.

More importantly, it doesn't compare with Mêlée, where being able to wield a two-hander requires lots of extra ST.

Opinions?

Thanks in advance!

[Agramer]

All I can say is:

Rambo : First Blood
Rambo : First Blood II
Rambo III
Rambo

;)))

[Mailanka]

I don't think I would consider a two-handed weapon wielded one-handed via Army of One as a genuinely one-handed weapon. A rifle is a rifle is a rifle, even if you have a perk that lets you wield it with one hand. You can't start whipping it around like a pistol just because you took Army of One.

[Sam Baughn]

I don't have Gun Fu, but don't the rules already cover wielding two-handed weapons one handed? You just need ridiculous levels of ST and the huge weapons perk to make it practical with most of them.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

I don't have Gun Fu, but don't the rules already cover wielding two-handed weapons one handed? You just need ridiculous levels of ST and the huge weapons perk to make it practical with most of them.

The Army Of One perk allows to ditch this rule, and just wield it one-handed instead. MinST stays the same, but the special daggers are effectively removed.

[Randyman]

Does the word "Cinematic" clear things up for you? How about "intentionally over-the-top"?
</sarc>

In all seriousness, the idea of Gun Fu being "balanced" relative to the bulk of the rest of GURPS just doesn't compute for me. It's supposed to be "wahoo!" crazy stuff.

If "it" doesn't fit whatever campaign you're planning, don't use "it", for any value of "it" found in any official published GURPS material. The GM is always assumed to be a factor (and an actor) in balancing the game.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Randyman

Does the word "Cinematic" clear things up for you? How about "intentionally over-the-top"?
</sarc>

In all seriousness, the idea of Gun Fu being "balanced" relative to the bulk of the rest of GURPS just doesn't compute for me. It's supposed to be "wahoo!" crazy stuff.

If "it" doesn't fit whatever campaign you're planning, don't use "it", for any value of "it" found in any official published GURPS material. The GM is always assumed to be a factor (and an actor) in balancing the game.

I don't agree. A perk is a perk, whether you're in a cinematic game or a realistic game. The game should be balanced. "Cinematic" just means you can do stuff that realistic characters can't, not that a 100 point cinematic character > a 100 point realistic character. Moreover, even if this wasn't the case, one cinematic advantage should balance with another cinematic advantage, and so Army of One should, in the very least, balance with the other perks in Gun Fu.

However, it seems to me that the intention of Army of One is to simply allow you to wield a two-handed, heavy weapon with one hand, ignoring the two-handed requirement. That's not really much of an advantage, except as Molokh points out that it creates an undue synergy with Gunslinger, and that might be worth a mention in an errata.

In regards to melee: wielding a big, two-handed weapon allows you to wield a shield in your off-hand. No such real advantage exists in gun-play, however, so I don't think comparing Army of One to similar melee perks is like comparing apples to oranges. Melee and ranged combat use very different assumptions, and even different rules in some cases (like All-Out Attacks)

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

I don't agree. A perk is a perk, whether you're in a cinematic game or a realistic game. The game should be balanced. "Cinematic" just means you can do stuff that realistic characters can't, not that a 100 point cinematic character > a 100 point realistic character. Moreover, even if this wasn't the case, one cinematic advantage should balance with another cinematic advantage, and so Army of One should, in the very least, balance with the other perks in Gun Fu.

However, it seems to me that the intention of Army of One is to simply allow you to wield a two-handed, heavy weapon with one hand, ignoring the two-handed requirement. That's not really much of an advantage, except as Molokh points out that it creates an undue synergy with Gunslinger, and that might be worth a mention in an errata.

In regards to melee: wielding a big, two-handed weapon allows you to wield a shield in your off-hand. No such real advantage exists in gun-play, however, so I don't think comparing Army of One to similar melee perks is like comparing apples to oranges. Melee and ranged combat use very different assumptions, and even different rules in some cases (like All-Out Attacks)

It's more important that it creates synergy with DWA and some acrobatic tricks, as well as Driving and similar skills. And the fact that it doesn't compare with Huge Weapons.

It's effectively Extra Hand, Weapon Mount -80%, Force Extension +50%, No Signature +20%, Doesn't require modified equipment to mount +??%.

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by Molokh

The Army Of One perk allows to ditch this rule, and just wield it one-handed instead. MinST stays the same, but the special daggers are effectively removed.

So it effectively doubles your strength for the specific purpose of meeting ST requirements for handling a long arm one handed?

I can see that having a nasty synergy with off-hand weapon training and dual-weapon attack. Especially when the character has a couple of light machine guns. It's also a lot cheaper than buying two weapon mounts, which would be the usual way of being able to handle two double-handed weapons.

A more balanced version might be something like 'you can use a two handed firearm in one hand if you meet it's minimum ST requirements, but it becomes unready after you attack with it, unless you have at least 1.5 times the listed ST'. That lets ST 15-17 big guys handle shotguns, SMGs and rifles one handed without penalty, but restricts the more ridiculous dual wielding to those with ST 20+.

[Mailanka]

[QUOTE=Molokh;878189]

It's more important that it creates synergy with DWA and some acrobatic tricks, as well as Driving and similar skills.

Which is the intention of the perk.

And the fact that it doesn't compare with Huge Weapons.

Irrelevant. Melee != Ranged. Ranged combat has no real analog to Focused Fury either, but I don't see you complaining.

It's effectively Extra Hand, Weapon Mount -80%, Force Extension +50%, No Signature +20%, Doesn't require modified equipment to mount +??%.

Over-analysis.

There's a strong cinematic tradition for strong heroes wielding big guns casually and with one hand. Moreover, it's a very minor advantage, all things considered. Just because you can construct an advantage an alternate, more expensive way, doesn't mean that the cheaper way is "overpowered."