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Old 04-04-2017, 03:31 PM   #11
edk926
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
GURPS does not define 20 as superhuman; it makes it the upper limit of human. And, well, I've read about human beings who arguably were up there: Goethe, Mill, von Neumann, for example. I wouldn't say any of them had the breadth of competence you're talking about. We need either to have human stats top out at 16, or have IQ more narrowly split up, or have skills redefined so that higher skill levels are standard.
I feel that, instead of it being a talent-like advantage, making Charisma a 5 or 10 pt/lvl attribute that starts at 10 would help with at least some things. You could then default a variety of social/communication skills to it.
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:36 PM   #12
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The rule of 20 is a patch for attributes being broken.
Is it really? If you have enough character points to get IQ significantly higher than 20, then the cost of putting at least one point in each of the IQ skills which are likely to be important is rather small (and not terribly inefficent for the first point in each skill either). There are also a few advantages which allow you to use any skill as if you had learned it.
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:48 PM   #13
Anthony
 
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Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
Is it really?
Yes. The way IQ is structured means that you should basically only put 1 point in any mental skill, except one or maybe two skills you put 8+ points in. When you've got 200 mental skills, that's just stupid.

I'd probably go with an exponential cost:
IQ 10: 0
IQ 11: 10
IQ 12: 30 (+20)
IQ 13: 70 (+40)
IQ 14: 150 (+80)
IQ 15: 310 (+160)
etc.... and probably also remove the cap of 4/level on skills. Means you probably never see skills of 20+ (cheapest option for IQ/A at 20 is IQ 14 for 150, IQ+6 for 128), but I can live with that.
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:50 PM   #14
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

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Then they didn't have that much IQ, they had something else. The rule of 20 is a patch for attributes being broken.
I don't think it's a good patch, though. If it were lowered to 16 it would be better.
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:51 PM   #15
Anthony
 
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Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

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I don't think it's a good patch, though. If it were lowered to 16 it would be better.
A good patch would be making attributes not broken.
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:52 PM   #16
whswhs
 
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Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
and probably also remove the cap of 4/level on skills.
I've thought about having total cost double with each level. So for Average, stat-1 is 1, stat is 2, stat+1 is 4, stat+2 is 8, stat+3 is 16, stat+4 is 32, and so on.
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Old 04-04-2017, 04:04 PM   #17
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Yes. The way IQ is structured means that you should basically only put 1 point in any mental skill, except one or maybe two skills you put 8+ points in. When you've got 200 mental skills, that's just stupid.

I'd probably go with an exponential cost:
IQ 10: 0
IQ 11: 10
IQ 12: 30 (+20)
IQ 13: 70 (+40)
IQ 14: 150 (+80)
IQ 15: 310 (+160)
etc.... and probably also remove the cap of 4/level on skills. Means you probably never see skills of 20+ (cheapest option for IQ/A at 20 is IQ 14 for 150, IQ+6 for 128), but I can live with that.
Oh, I did not mean to ask if the attributes really are broken. I meant is the rule of 20 really a patch for that? Sorry about the lack of clarity.

Without the rule of 20, you would just not have to put 1 point into all important skills, but the cost of doing so for someone with IQ significantly higher than 20 would be rather small and since the first point generally increase skill level by four and sometimes give some other benefits as well, you might very well want to do so anyway.

An exponential cost progression might be a good choice, but doubling each level seems a little harsh (though it does make it easy to calculate in your head).
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Old 04-04-2017, 04:08 PM   #18
Anthony
 
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Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
Oh, I did not mean to ask if the attributes really are broken. I meant is the rule of 20 really a patch for that?
It is, just not a very good one.
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Old 04-04-2017, 04:42 PM   #19
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
A good patch would be making attributes not broken.
Explain this to us, please? How, in your opinion, are they "broken", and what do you propose for altering them so that they are "fixed"?

(I personally don't find them broken, but I'm curious as to your reasoning.)
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20

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.... and probably also remove the cap of 4/level on skills.
I'm not too technical in "Gurps theory" but where is that cap in the rules and is it explained?

Sorry to derail but I'd like to keep up with this discussion and I'm getting lost.
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