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Old 07-25-2013, 11:53 AM   #71
Anders
 
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Default Re: Rule of 16 - What's the Point?

Could you slap a Cosmic "Cannot be resisted" enhancement on Magery?
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:58 AM   #72
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Default Re: Rule of 16 - What's the Point?

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Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
Could you slap a Cosmic "Cannot be resisted" enhancement on Magery?
No, because Magery isn't resisted. Spells are resisted, and Magery is a power talent.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:03 PM   #73
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No, because Magery isn't resisted. Spells are resisted, and Magery is a power talent.
And as an added bonus, 'Cosmic: cannot be resisted' is a forbidden modifier in general. Obviously a GM could still create it, but PU4 explicitly rejects it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:24 PM   #74
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Default Re: Rule of 16 - What's the Point?

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And as an added bonus, 'Cosmic: cannot be resisted' is a forbidden modifier in general. Obviously a GM could still create it, but PU4 explicitly rejects it.
Of course, there is a way to make an affliction that can't be resisted: use Symptoms on an innate attack. That doesn't have a resistance roll, though there are lots of other ways it can fail to take effect. Still, a high RoF attack with high skill has a much better hit probability than a malediction subject to the rule of 16, and may be cheaper: compare Affliction (Paralysis +150%, Malediction (range/speed chat) +150%) [40] to Innate Attack (Toxic) 1d6, Cosmic (ignores DR) +300%, RoF 15 (+100%), Symptoms (Paralysis at 50% of HP, +300%), Limited (Cannot do more than HP/2 damage, -20%) [32]

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Old 07-25-2013, 12:29 PM   #75
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Default Re: Rule of 16 - What's the Point?

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Of course, there is a way to make an affliction that can't be resisted: use Symptoms on an innate attack. That doesn't have a resistance roll, though there are lots of other ways it can fail to take effect. Still, a high RoF attack with high skill has a much better hit probability than an affliction subject to the rule of 16.
Add No Roll Required (+100%), Ignores DR (+300%) and No Active Defense Permitted (+300%) to the innate attack + symptom and it'll always hit, the target can't defend and the target's armor is ignored. Expensive, but oh does it hurt. Heh.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:21 PM   #76
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Default Re: Rule of 16 - What's the Point?

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Add No Roll Required (+100%), Ignores DR (+300%) and No Active Defense Permitted (+300%) to the innate attack + symptom and it'll always hit, the target can't defend and the target's armor is ignored. Expensive, but oh does it hurt. Heh.
I thought about doing a "Chi Dagger" for Lee's character with the two last enhancements (I figure she can roll to hit) with a 1d fat attack. That would cost her 70 points per level, but at the rate of one dagger per turn she could drop space marines faster than 307 Ale. :)
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:25 PM   #77
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Default Re: Rule of 16 - What's the Point?

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However I know that with the players at my table this rule would essentially warp the story in unfortuanate ways and would quickly narrow player builds to be either anti-magic specialist (heroic archer stealth monkeys with Mana Dampening/ Magic Resistance) or magic specialist who are constantly dumping points into their particular "I win button" because each skill bump gives them a 1 yard advantage over the opposing wizards "I Win Button".
My players would revolt after the TPK with no saves. Maybe Lemminglord's group is different, but most people aren't going to find, "From a thousand miles away a wizard curses you and you die. Make new characters." very fun at all.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:33 PM   #78
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Default Re: Rule of 16 - What's the Point?

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My players would revolt after the TPK with no saves. Maybe Lemminglord's group is different, but most people aren't going to find, "From a thousand miles away a wizard curses you and you die. Make new characters." very fun at all.
It would depend a lot on the assumptions going into the game. "The cultist completes the ritual. The old one's consciousness leaks into your own and you die. Make new characters."

If Lemminglord is expecting that sort of thing, then it would be easy to see why a 50% chance of failure isn't satisfying.

Or it could be as simple as trying to figure it out metaphysically. If you can easily, with complete success, turn inanimate stone or water into air, then why is it so much more difficult to do the same thing to an animate hunk of flesh? This is something I've had a big problem with when trying to use this stuff in my games. If I'm assuming an atomist universe, with magic that (somehow) works according to atomist principles, then what is it about living things that make them so much more resistant to magic than their component parts?
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:35 PM   #79
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Default Re: Rule of 16 - What's the Point?

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Or it could be as simple as trying to figure it out metaphysically. If you can easily, with complete success, turn inanimate stone or water into air, then why is it so much more difficult to do the same thing to an animate hunk of flesh? This is something I've had a big problem with when trying to use this stuff in my games. If I'm assuming an atomist universe, with magic that (somehow) works according to atomist principles, then what is it about living things that make them so much more resistant to magic than their component parts?
There's no reason that you can't have anything roll HT to resist magic in that setting.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:45 PM   #80
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Default Re: Rule of 16 - What's the Point?

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There's no reason that you can't have anything roll HT to resist magic in that setting.
That would cover animate vs. inanimate. I think it'd still be weird from an atomist perspective, because HT is a trait pertaining to the system as a whole...any individual component taken on its own might have a quite different HT.
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