Reverse Missiles / not an "attack"

[RGTraynor]

In a thread on another forum, a poster opined that the Reverse Missiles spell does not work against suppressing fire, on the premise that it's not actually an "attack," and that RAW leans on the term "attacker" used throughout.

Now at my own table, I'd rule that as nonsense; someone shooting bullets at me isn't off the hook just because he might not explicitly be attempting to hit *me*, and furthermore that reduces the effectiveness of an expensive and prerequisite-laden spell. (Beyond that, how in the merry hell is the spell divining the intent of the "attacker?" The spell's sentient? It's able to read the mind of the attacker, divine his intent and act upon it? Does it then not work at all upon an automatic trap/weapon system, or a missile with internal homing capability? And if so, shouldn't Mind-Reading be thrown into the prerequisite basket?)

But now I'm curious. Is that actually the intent of RAW, or is "attacker" just a simple way not to have to repeat "person initially launching the missile?"

[Aldric]

B.409-410 under Suppression Fires says you must attack all targets that enter the area.
I don't think Reverse Missile would have any issues deflecting those attacks.

[Dalin]

I concur with your interpretation: nonsense, indeed.

Even if we were being extremely conservative in our reading, the text explicitly says that "you must attack anyone – friend or foe – who enters the zone" (B410), so I don't see how you could possibly interpret that as not an attack.

[Varyon]

I had thought Reverse Missiles didn't work against shrapnel from an explosion, but a bit of Googling brought up this Krommpost, which states outright that, while the explosion itself is unaffected by Reverse Missiles, the shrapnel would be bounced away (presumably back to the hex where the explosive was). Considering it's hard to get a more impersonal missile then the "to whom it may concern" shrapnel from an explosion, I'd say even if Suppression Fire is considered not to involve an explicit attack on the Missile Shielded character, the projectiles still get bounced back.

[Aldric]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I had thought Reverse Missiles didn't work against shrapnel from an explosion, but a bit of Googling brought up this Krommpost, which states outright that, while the explosion itself is unaffected by Reverse Missiles, the shrapnel would be bounced away (presumably back to the hex where the explosive was). Considering it's hard to get a more impersonal missile then the "to whom it may concern" shrapnel from an explosion, I'd say even if Suppression Fire is considered not to involve an explicit attack on the Missile Shielded character, the projectiles still get bounced back.

If it helps, the prerequisite spell Missile Shield explicitly stops shrapnel

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

(Beyond that, how in the merry hell is the spell divining the intent of the "attacker?" The spell's sentient? It's able to read the mind of the attacker, divine his intent and act upon it? Does it then not work at all upon an automatic trap/weapon system, or a missile with internal homing capability? And if so, shouldn't Mind-Reading be thrown into the prerequisite basket?)

The other option is that the missile is "reversed", that is, turned around and sent back on the path from whence it came. This is my favorite opinion, and its supported by the name of the spell, but its hardly an unassailable one.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by ericthered

The other option is that the missile is "reversed", that is, turned around and sent back on the path from whence it came. This is my favorite opinion, and its supported by the name of the spell, but its hardly an unassailable one.

This is a tempting reading, but it runs into the problem that, due to air resistance slowing the projectile both coming and going, a strict reversal of its direction would almost certainly fall well short of a shooter firing from anything greater than point-blank range [EDIT: I assume, at least- can anyone who knows about ballistics analyze this?]. Unfortunately, this may ultimately be one of those spells that "does exactly what it says on the tin by inexplicable magic"- it works out where the attack came from, and uses the incoming missile for counterbattery fire.

The question is complicated by the fact that some Protection and Warning spells do throw in a mind-reading effect as a free bonus- Watchdog, for example, explicitly checks whether an intruder has "hostile intent" (which raises a host of problems itself- does it fail to warn you when mindless zombies or golems close in to attack, to say nothing of question of using magic or Mind Block to mask hostility).

EDIT: As to the particular question the OP asks, I would rule that "attack" in no way implies "particular hostile intention", and an incoming projectile is returned to its source with no regard for the reason the source lobbed it. If there were any doubt, the Kromm quote mentioned up thread (saying that even shrapnel is deflected back to the site of its source explosion) would force us to conclude that the "attacker" doesn't need to have any intent at all, so hostile intent is clearly not a requirement.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

Te [EDIT: I assume, at least- can anyone who knows about ballistics analyze this?]. t.

You don't need an extensive ballistics education. You just be able to read the Gurps stats for "Max" (and "1/2D" is also of interest).

If the total distance traveled by the Reversed projectile exceeds the "Max" stat it does indeed fall to the ground. If it exceeds the "1/2D" it is slowed and does 1/2 damage.

This might happen fairly frequently for thrown weapons but very seldom for bullets whose 1/2 and Max are in hundreds of yards.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

You don't need an extensive ballistics education. You just be able to read the Gurps stats for "Max" (and "1/2D" is also of interest).

If the total distance traveled by the Reversed projectile exceeds the "Max" stat it does indeed fall to the ground. If it exceeds the "1/2D" it is slowed and does 1/2 damage.

This might happen fairly frequently for thrown weapons but very seldom for bullets whose 1/2 and Max are in hundreds of yards.

I am not concerned about air resistance bringing the projectile to a stop, but rather about the projectile being slowed enough that gravity has more time to pull it down before it reaches the target. A marksman firing at long distances can take this into account when aiming; I strongly suspect that the Reverse Missiles would have to make further adjustments when firing the missile back.

(In a vacuum, if an incoming object that has been moving along a ballistic parabola is launched back out with the same speed it came in and in the exact opposite direction, it will move in reverse along the same parabola to pass precisely through the point from which it was launched on its original flight. In an atmosphere, an object so launched would be slowed down over the course of its path, and consequently have fallen slightly farther by the time it reaches said original source. How far "slightly farther" is, and whether it would be enough to miss a man-sized target, would depend on how much the projectile has been slowed- hence my appeal to those with better knowledge of ballistics.)


The 1/2D rules, of course, are a simplification for gaming purposes of the reality that a projectile in an atmosphere is gradually slowing over the whole course of its flight.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

I am not concerned about air resistance bringing the projectile to a stop, but rather about the projectile being slowed enough that gravity has more time to pull it down before it reaches the target.d.

That's just the range penalty for the increased range and the only roll to hit in the process is the one the original attacker made. If that was successful the Reverse shot is unfailing.