02-16-2014, 06:46 PM | #31 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
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ST is a small exception in fantasy games sometimes going up to 17 or more but that's a minor issue. HP really are a problem. They simply don't increase in Gurps the way they do in D20 games so spell damage that does increase will be a problem, Converting monster hit dice to Gurps can also be a large problem with very limited success for any simple mathematical formula. As to your specific questions while I've been with Gurps and Pathfinder from the beginning of each game I don't really understand what you're trying to do. I also suspect that you're trying to do things the hard way. I wouldn't try and mix game systems the way you seem to want to. Game rules aren't really modular.
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Fred Brackin |
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02-16-2014, 07:20 PM | #32 | |
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
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Yes, I am fully aware that the most thought goes into character, but again, I am expected to believe that a full conversion of characters is easier than simply adjusting one thing. The fact that the players drive the story is EXACTLY why I am reluctant to rely on converting every monster in the book. I run open campaigns where the players have full control over where they go and what adventure they go on based on in game role playing decisions. I can only predict so much about where they will go, and I am not going to end a game session early just because I haven't finished converting the monsters in an area I didn't expect them to go. Of course, it doesn't matter if I agree with you or not - no one has shown me any examples of how to make those conversions. I have no way of knowing if it would take me a few moments to write up a conversion or a few hours. Besides all that, without knowing how to bench mark the monsters for difficulty, it doesn't matter if it is quick and easy to convert. Last edited by Elliander; 02-16-2014 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Forgot quote |
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02-16-2014, 07:27 PM | #33 | ||
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
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*ahem* I chose to use GURPS because it lacks a class system and has versatility in creating multiple types of characters. I want to strip out the magic system, and use a new magic system that I am creating based on a D20 system. Instead of rewriting all of the spells, and rewriting all of the monsters, I wanted to simply switch out the magic and use D20 stats. That's it. Think of the items as being like characters in and of themselves, an object that contains the spells. The only interaction between the characters and the spell casting is the spell points and caster level - along with of course the effect it has on targets. The item will also have it's own experience system, and will gain experience as it is used in combat separately from character development points. To access a higher level spell, you both need to have unlocked a higher level spell, and have the appropriate caster level. Just think of the magic as being compartmentalized in this campaign. Little more than a weapon, if thinking about it that way helps. I know people run no-magic campaigns, so think of this as a no-magic campaign where an object has a magic like effect if that makes it easier to grasp. Last edited by Elliander; 02-16-2014 at 07:34 PM. |
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02-16-2014, 07:28 PM | #34 | ||||||||||||||
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
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In D20, hit probability is determined principally by class and level, with bonuses from high strength and penalties from lack of proficiency. In GURPS, hit probability is determined principally by DX and weapon skill level. In D20, Hit points are a summary of all your defences except armor, which affects the opponent's hit probability In GURPS, Hit points are only the ability to sustain damage, and tend to stay fairly static over a character's career, while most defence is based on rolls against Parry, Dodge, and Block, which are skill and attribute based. Armor reduces damage. The differences go on, and I don't think there is a way to meaningfully translate GURPS combat stats into something that will work in D20 Quote:
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02-16-2014, 07:47 PM | #35 | |||
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
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Refer to my last post. |
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02-16-2014, 07:49 PM | #36 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
What sort of game is you group looking at playing?
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02-16-2014, 08:36 PM | #37 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
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You ask for people who know more about Gurps than you do to help you but you don't seem to want to hear what they say. The answers you appear to want don't exist to my knowledge. I would probably do what you say you want to do entirely within Gurps. Especially the part about creating a new magic system. Mixing magic and tech and different tech levels is also the sort of thing Gurps does well. If not I would do it within a hybrid D20 framework borrowing from Mutants and Masterminds or True 20 which use point buy character creation with D20 stats. I would not try and use bits from both. They have largely irreconcilable basic philosophical assumptions.
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Fred Brackin |
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02-16-2014, 10:57 PM | #38 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
From what you've said, I'll echo Fred and a few others in saying that I think you'd do better using Mutants and Masterminds 2E (M&M 2E) or True20 (T20).
M&M is practically GURPS d20; it's points based, lets you build what you want limited only by GM whim as to Power Level and campaign setting restrictions. There's a nice variety of skills, which I found were better detailed and elaborated than D&D (not familiar with Pathfinder so can't compare). There's a whole section on equipment vs gadgets, and you can use the gadgets for your magical items, just adding a few tweaks to match what you want. T20 is sort of a M&M-class-based d20 hybrid. It's d20 boiled down to 3 core classes, which effectively determine which Combat Bonus, skills points, and list of Feats you can choose from each level. Powers (a.k.a., spells and magic) are special feats only available to the Adept class. In T20, magical items effectively grant the wielder feats. So you can have a magical staff/wand/gun/whatever of lightning to let you "cast" lighting. Here, powers - whether from an innate feat or one granted by an item - have a "drain" which limits how often you can use it; you can probably tweak that relatively easily to get "magic points" or whatever measurement you were planning to use. Now, T20 comes with an appendix on how to convert monsters, spells, weapons, etc., between normal D&D/d20 and T20. It pretty much focuses on how to convert HP to their Toughness Saves and vice versa as almost everything else can be used as is. M&M uses the same Toughness Save concept, so the T20 conversion rules work for M&M (2E) as well. But in a nutshell, other than the HP/Toughness thing, you can pretty much use the monsters/stats/spells/abilities as is between all the systems. Most of your work would be done for you, except for your setting-specific tweaks on your magic system. T20 even has TLs and how to build items for each one. I'd suggest using both. T20 for the conversion rules, tech items and gadgets, but M&M for the actual character building. The Array from M&M (similar to GURPS Modular Abilities) sounds like it may be useful for your magic system. Side note, M&M 3E has additional changes compared to 2E/True20. You'd have to do a bit more conversion work from the d20 base, but it's still not so bad. If you really want to stick with GURPS, well, I'll again echo what others have said in that I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for. I've seen quick notions of what you kinda possibly want but not the specifics or the details. And GURPS is all about details. But that aside, to answer one of your question: Yes, it will be a lot of work. Conversions of RULES always are (as opposed to getting something similar out of existing rules). GURPS can cover almost any concept internally within its own rules. But it can't be forced other rules from other systems. You'd therefore be rebuilding from scratch in GURPS. On the positive side, what you want might already be done somewhere. There are d20 to GURPS monster conversion out on the web (a whole wiki of them IIRC). You can probably grab those. There are various character templates bouncing around, so you could check those out. GURPS Dungeon Fantasy pretty much covers the "conversion" of your D&D classes for example, although that would require a purchase. As to your magic system, there's potentially a lot of work. Realm Magic from GURPS Thaumatology might be close to what you want, but, again, I'm not sure what you want exactly, so can't say for sure. Either way, you'd want GURPS Thaumatology (another purchase), and that's a guide on how to build your own, not a full example, so there's more work there for you. But even if it is done, you'll find that d20 "game balance" concepts, such as CR, etc., really don't work with GURPS, and therefore even converting is not always a good idea. Converting a D&D Ancient Dragon that's the size of a castle into a realistic GURPS equivalent would pretty much slaughter any party out there. Its HP and DR would be untouchable for any party. You need to do more than convert. You need to modify it to fit within the concepts of the rules (the ancient GURPS dragons are the size of elephants, IIRC, and thus much more manageable for GURPS PC to defeat). And that's where the real work is for any conversion. You can't just say, for example, this AC becomes this DR; you need to draw a line somewhere and see what becomes a party-killing level, and then modify your monsters to not cross that level. It's pretty much the same issue of converting massive-damage spells of ever-increasing HP games into a game where HP are static. High level d20 monsters just aren't designed for the static HP of GURPS. Ditto for magic items, etc. And the problem works both ways; converting from GURPS to d20 just doesn't give you the damage or HP you need to survive at "higher levels." I hope this was helpful. Last edited by Kallatari; 02-17-2014 at 09:06 PM. Reason: typos |
02-16-2014, 11:07 PM | #39 |
Experimental Subject
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: saarbrücken, germany
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
To add to what has been said: If I design a Gurps character, I can increase or decrease various movement-related abilities, I can also invest in certain supernatural advantages such as Magery, or buy Weapon Master.
If the game then works with Shadowrun movement rules, my movement-related advantages suddenly don't work as they're intended to. If the magic system is made from scratch, Magery will not do what it says it does. If monsters use D&D stats, Weapon Master becomes meaningless, and the points spent on Targeted Attack Broadsword/Neck don't do what the Gurps character creation and pricing assume they do. That's like trying to build a car, but insist it must use a keel for stability and a solar sail for propulsion. It's possible, in theory, but it's not going to work smoothly. I think people feel that the answer to your questions is "Can't really be done, why not try another approach?" :)
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Like a mail order mogwai...but nerdier - Nymdok understanding is a three-edged sword
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02-16-2014, 11:26 PM | #40 |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation
Perhaps a bit of "Can see what you're trying to do, but can't figure out why or what you're trying to get out of it, so it looks like a lot of effort for little or no gain." The question "How do I convert X to GURPS?" usually has an unsatisfying and overly complex answer. It's almost always better to ask "How do I emulate X within GURPS?"
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RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. |
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character creation, d20 conversion, gurps 4th |
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