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Old 12-09-2005, 12:35 PM   #1
Doktor Teufel
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Default Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

According to the Basic Set, 4th Edition, speed (as in yds/sec) should, for the most part, be ignored during combat between fighters on foot. OK, but shouldn't sprinting or at least running make you harder to hit than standing still?

Anything that uses the High-Speed Movement rules is supposed to get its velocity in yards added to its range in yards when determining penalties for ranged attackers. Do sprinters suddenly get this bonus while sprinting? Sprinting is high-speed movement. At combat speeds, that would mean an additional -2 penalty to most shooters at hex-grid ranges.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is this: Someone with Move 5 Sprints at Move 6. Someone with Move 6 Sprints at Move 7. Am I correct in assuming, then, that fighters on foot get no bonus or penalty for their speed, even if they're sprinting?
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Old 12-09-2005, 05:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Teufel
Anything that uses the High-Speed Movement rules is supposed to get its velocity in yards added to its range in yards when determining penalties for ranged attackers.
"But for fast targets -- including anything that requires the High-Speed Movement rules (p. 394) -- the GM may rule that speed is important enough to consider." (p. 550)

It's still the GM's call whether or not to apply the Speed/Range Table for any given case. Go with whatever you feel is right for your campaign. My opinion: I wouldn't apply it unless the runner is trying to avoid the fight (i.e. not attacking).
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Old 12-09-2005, 05:41 PM   #3
Doktor Teufel
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Default Re: Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

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Originally Posted by jahn
"But for fast targets -- including anything that requires the High-Speed Movement rules (p. 394) -- the GM may rule that speed is important enough to consider." (p. 550)

It's still the GM's call whether or not to apply the Speed/Range Table for any given case. Go with whatever you feel is right for your campaign. My opinion: I wouldn't apply it unless the runner is trying to avoid the fight (i.e. not attacking).
Hmm, that's a good point.

Mainly, I wonder if running should give you a defensive bonus (or rather, an extra penalty to your attacker) as opposed to, say, standing still. Shooters are trained to lead targets, but it's still far easier to hit a stationary or slow-moving target than a fast-moving one, even if it's only a matter of yards/sec.

Probably best not to worry about it.
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Old 12-10-2005, 08:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

I know how you feel. I'm working on a supers campaign and it becomes a very tricky issue when you're dealing with guys like the Flash in combat. It becomes difficult especially since there are people with superreflexes who can react to speedsters without having a Move that high. You can apply the speed/range penalties to combat, but it becomes tricky since with projectile weapons they don't list bullet, beam, etc. speeds so it becomes hard to apply. I'm working on it, but most of the time I get a headache and quit.
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Old 12-10-2005, 09:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Teufel
According to the Basic Set, 4th Edition, speed (as in yds/sec) should, for the most part, be ignored during combat between fighters on foot. OK, but shouldn't sprinting or at least running make you harder to hit than standing still?
It mostly depends on how detailed you want to be, and whether you feel it'll slow down your combat too much for the benefit it gives you. Depending on how far away the shooter is, the +5 or +6 yards on the speed/range table may not bump it into another range category anyways. Certainly, once you reach 20 yards it's not guarenteed to kick it up a notch...

OTOH, I've had players ASK me to apply the speed penalties vs a mounted opponant. And they were the ones shooting AT the mounted guy, rather than trying to get out of being shot. Depends on your group and if they want to do the extra math.
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Old 12-10-2005, 10:59 AM   #6
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Default Re: Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Teufel
According to the Basic Set, 4th Edition, speed (as in yds/sec) should, for the most part, be ignored during combat between fighters on foot. OK, but shouldn't sprinting or at least running make you harder to hit than standing still?

Anything that uses the High-Speed Movement rules is supposed to get its velocity in yards added to its range in yards when determining penalties for ranged attackers. Do sprinters suddenly get this bonus while sprinting? Sprinting is high-speed movement. At combat speeds, that would mean an additional -2 penalty to most shooters at hex-grid ranges.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is this: Someone with Move 5 Sprints at Move 6. Someone with Move 6 Sprints at Move 7. Am I correct in assuming, then, that fighters on foot get no bonus or penalty for their speed, even if they're sprinting?
When you sprint you're moving straight line and exceeding the range of a step. As a rule of thumb you don't get a defense maneuver under those conditions. So, you're defenseless but harder to hit?

Realistically a sniper can get a lead on where you're going as you sprint. Bonus to hit seems more appropriate.

Arguably, since you can allout attack as 'full move and attack at penalty' make a 'move and defend' all out defense to move up to your max and have a penalized defense roll.
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Old 12-10-2005, 11:02 AM   #7
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Default Re: Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhand
I know how you feel. I'm working on a supers campaign and it becomes a very tricky issue when you're dealing with guys like the Flash in combat. It becomes difficult especially since there are people with superreflexes who can react to speedsters without having a Move that high. You can apply the speed/range penalties to combat, but it becomes tricky since with projectile weapons they don't list bullet, beam, etc. speeds so it becomes hard to apply. I'm working on it, but most of the time I get a headache and quit.
The penalty isn't related to the relative speed of the missile or beam to the target. A moving target is harder to hit than a stationary one. Cricumstantially you could reduce damage if Speedguy is running away from a bullet at 90% of the bullet's speed but that's not related to HITTING Speedguy, just damange.
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain-Captain
When you sprint you're moving straight line and exceeding the range of a step. As a rule of thumb you don't get a defense maneuver under those conditions. So, you're defenseless but harder to hit?

Realistically a sniper can get a lead on where you're going as you sprint. Bonus to hit seems more appropriate.
Okay, two things. Firstly, the move maneuver, regardless of whether you sprint, allows you to take any active defense normally.

Secondly, what the heck are you saying, a sniper should get a bonus to hit a running target? That's crazy.
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Old 12-10-2005, 01:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain-Captain
When you sprint you're moving straight line and exceeding the range of a step. As a rule of thumb you don't get a defense maneuver under those conditions. So, you're defenseless but harder to hit?
As what rule? Please cite because I've never seen an edition of GURPS where you loose your defenses for moving more than a step. ATTACKS, sure, but never defenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain-Captain
Realistically a sniper can get a lead on where you're going as you sprint. Bonus to hit seems more appropriate.
... bonus to hit as compared to zigzagging, standing still, what? That's not a bonus, thats "Less of a penalty".

It's still harder to line up your shot if the target is moving, even at a constant speed in a straight line, than if the target is standing still. Any other way lies insanity.
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: Speed/Range Penalties . . . Gray Area?

Suppose you're a borderline superhero shooter, about 10 yards away from some mooks in a warehouse, minimal cover. You have Move 10. Assuming you run-and-gun you're giving the enemies a net -2 to hit, right? Because the net speed/range factor is 20 yards and this is 2 levels tougher than 10 yards. Not necessarily a wiser choice, since you lose any potential DR from cover and may suffer some penalties to hit due to bulk.

Seems realistic to apply the penalties even though this is on foot, right? (I know realistic within a very cinematic Move rate). Representing a guy breaking from shadows to charge across open space being harder to hit than a static target. I suppose both are quite likely to inflict at least Partial Suprise on the targets.

I take the point about sharpshooters being able to lead targets running in a straight line across open ground, but I think that is a very different type of scenario.

Apologies for resurrecting this long-dormant thread. Just seem to be quite a lot of times factoring in the Move would make a decent difference on the Speed/Range table. Also want to check my understanding of the rules is correct on this point.
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